# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/701 "2019-09-26T19:12:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No one’s keeping anything “on the down low”. The Bidens’ shady Ukrainian dealings have been known for months. They’ve been discussed in some major media outlets. > > In the fucking “transcript”, Zelenskyy said “I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.” President Trump’s next word was “Good”. You mean the intial NY Times report, co-authored by Ken Vogel and Iuliia Mendel? The same Iuliia Mendel who, just one month after the original May 1st Hunter Biden piece, on June 3rd, 2019 tweeted this? > [@](#): > > Thanks everyone for your congratulations. There were 4000 applications. It is a big honor and big responsibility to **become a spokesperson for the President of Ukraine** @ZelenskyyUa. The Administration will be as transparent as possible.Let’s start today 4pm That one? (Emphasis mine) > Ken Vogel? The same Ken Vogel who had to admit in his latest article that: > [@](#): > > … no evidence has surfaced that the former Vice President intentionally tried to help his son by pressing for the prosecutors dismissal. > ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/702 "2019-09-26T19:12:50Z")
**Moderators** : Donald Trump may want to use Hunter Biden as a distraction to what happened but Hunter Biden nor his father are being impeached. Just because Republican media and Trumpanzees like this distraction doesn’t mean we should (fighting ignorance and all). May I suggest that all talk about Joe Biden or his son be moved to another thread and shut down in this one? Even if they were corrupt, it has been established that how Trump dealt with it was far from ideal and how he dealt with it is what will get him impeached. I appreciate you trying to keep this thread on topic. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/703 "2019-09-26T19:15:55Z")
**Moderators** : I agree. The discussion of what Hunter Biden may or may not have done is irrelevant to the story of the House Impeachment Hearings and what Trump may or may not have done, and such discussions should be contained to their own thread. The only fact of the Hunter Biden investigation which is relevant to this discussion is that the President thought it warranted requesting yet another country to interfere with American Elections. Details of the HB investigation itself are thus irrelevant to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/704 "2019-09-26T19:18:56Z")
Sounds good to me. It would be a handy place for people to post links and evidence. Maybe even the FBI’s hotline phone number. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/705 "2019-09-26T19:23:54Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > … He offered to trade US aid for the reopening of a bogus investigation of a political opponent. This is all covered in the President’s transcript and the whistleblower’s complaint. No, he didn’t. This first sentence in the above quote is false. He didn’t “offer to trade US aid”. He didn’t even mention the financial aid at all on the call, and as I said before: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I read it. It doesn’t show where President Trump made a “promise” either. It’s perfectly clear in the transcript that he wanted the Ukranians to look into the Crowdstrike server and Hunter Biden’s corruption. What’s not clear is what Ukraine was going to get as a result of doing that. The “promise” from President Trump isn’t there. He doesn’t say something like " do X, Y, and Z and you’ll get your Javelins" or “once you’ve done that, I’ll make sure you get the aid money you’ve been waiting for”. I understand some of you think that’s _implied_, but it’s not _stated_, can we agree on at least that basic fact? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/706 "2019-09-26T19:24:00Z")
> [@Trump](#): > > “I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? Because that’s close to a spy,” he continued. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.” Re-quoting because it’s very easy to gloss over how sinister it is, given how desensitized we’ve become to Trump’s horridness. Like, forget the actual scandal for minute; this statement alone should merit his removal. Notice that it’s not even the whistleblower he’s making veiled threats towards. It’s the witness to Trump’s conduct. And he’s not just talking about this person; he’s talking to anyone else who might forward with dirt on him. Witness tampering right before eyes. There are now going to be so many leaks, the WH is going to become the White Colander. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/707 "2019-09-26T19:26:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Sounds good to me. It would be a handy place for people to post links and evidence. Maybe even the FBI’s hotline phone number. Or, if you are a Trumpette, the Ukraine’s hotline phone number. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/708 "2019-09-26T19:29:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Wow. New YouGov poll on impeachment over Ukraine scandal shows support from 76% of Democrats and 51% of independents…but the number that should scare the hell out of Trump & the GOP is that it’s **also supported by 32% of Republicans.** [https://t.co/HDwzUSGu6I](https://t.co/HDwzUSGu6I) [https://t.co/AJmgEi7Sb0](https://t.co/AJmgEi7Sb0) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/709 "2019-09-26T19:30:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, Joe Biden pushed _HARD_ for the firing of the prosecutor overseeing the investigation of his son’s company. “If true”, that makes it an official act of corruption on Joe Biden’s part. We should investigate to let the truth of the matter come to light. Oy. The prosecutor, Shokin, refused to investigate corruption, despite intense pressure by the international community and the US. Biden pressing for the firing of Shokin made it _more_ likely Burisma, the company on whose board Hunter Biden then served, would be investigated, not less. As for your comments about accusations of Trump colluding with Russia versus his “support” for Ukraine, there are corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine’s government who’ve been helping to further Russian influence. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/710 "2019-09-26T19:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > NPR: Pentagon letter undercuts Trump’s assertion on delaying aid to Ukraine over corruption. > **[Pentagon Letter Undercuts Trump Assertion On Delaying Aid To Ukraine Over...](https://t.co/QbfdaqhOMy)** > > A letter sent to four congressional committees in May and obtained by NPR says officials have "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions" to address corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/711 "2019-09-26T19:31:48Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now.” - Donald J. Trump > > Is he suggesting that we would have killed the whistleblower back in the day? (Snowden nods) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/712 "2019-09-26T19:32:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [https://today.yougov.com/opi/surveys/results#/survey/72f3bf66-dee3-11e9-b4a9-9f0e9e31e4a3/question/9b91b2b7-dee3-11e9-ba0e-c7fcd6994022/politics](https://t.co/HDwzUSGu6I) > > [https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1177278120820387840/photo/1](https://t.co/AJmgEi7Sb0) Do you have a full link? Those squashed links don’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/713 "2019-09-26T19:34:10Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > **Moderators** : Donald Trump may want to use Hunter Biden as a distraction to what happened but Hunter Biden nor his father are being impeached. Just because Republican media and Trumpanzees like this distraction doesn’t mean we should (fighting ignorance and all). May I suggest that all talk about Joe Biden or his son be moved to another thread and shut down in this one? Even if they were corrupt, it has been established that how Trump dealt with it was far from ideal and how he dealt with it is what will get him impeached. I appreciate you trying to keep this thread on topic. I respectfully disagree only in terms of: Speculation on a possible defense for impeachment Just my two cents. Worth much less of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/714 "2019-09-26T19:34:16Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Oy. The prosecutor, Shokin, refused to investigate corruption, despite intense pressure by the international community and the US. Biden pressing for the firing of Shokin made it _more_ likely Burisma, the company on whose board Hunter Biden then served, would be investigated, not less. As you responded to HD’s response to me, I’ll just say you put it more succinctly and clearly than I could have… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/715 "2019-09-26T19:41:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He didn’t even mention the financial aid at all on the call, and as I said before: You. Are. WRONG. > [@](#): > > The President: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it’s something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn’t do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it’s something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn’t say that it’s reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/716 "2019-09-26T19:44:48Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I respectfully disagree only in terms of: Speculation on a possible defense for impeachment > > Just my two cents. Worth much less of course. The House isn’t going to prosecute Joe Bidens kid, and if Bidens kid is such a criminal, then he deserves his own thread. This case, in and of itself, has already lent itself to dozens of pages of commentary (depending on settings, true) - let’s not murky the waters with another case when a perfectly good solution (another thread) exists which keeps communications open and clear for all. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/717 "2019-09-26T19:46:35Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Moderator’s Voice: There isn’t. > Moderator’s Voice: [It has](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/23/20879611/joe-biden-hunter-biden-ukraine-corruption-prosecutor-burisma-donald-trump-whistleblower-complaint). This seems like Junior Modding. Don’t do this. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Look, while I appreciate that many here are looking for **HurricaneDitka** to have a “come to Jesus” moment, there is zero way this happens. He is convinced that Trump can do no wrong, and even an admission from Trump that he did do wrong is met with contortions. And pinning him down on what it would take is useless - he’ll just move goalposts or say “that’s not what happened” just as he can deny what actually happened in that phone call that Trump admitted to doing. > > This thread will be great for sharing updates on the impeachment. But I humbly suggest that we not waste our time trying to get HurricaneDitka to believe anything and spend even less time caring when he inevitably doesn’t. This is personalizing arguments. Don’t do this either. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > **Moderators** : Donald Trump may want to use Hunter Biden as a distraction to what happened but Hunter Biden nor his father are being impeached. Just because Republican media and Trumpanzees like this distraction doesn’t mean we should (fighting ignorance and all). May I suggest that all talk about Joe Biden or his son be moved to another thread and shut down in this one? Even if they were corrupt, it has been established that how Trump dealt with it was far from ideal and how he dealt with it is what will get him impeached. I appreciate you trying to keep this thread on topic. Right now, it’s a bit difficult to disentangle activity of Hunter Biden with respect to the overall discussion surrounding potential impeachment. As such, I’m reluctant to curtail that line of discussion at this time. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/718 "2019-09-26T19:47:44Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > As you responded to HD’s response to me, I’ll just say you put it more succinctly and clearly than I could have… So sorry. I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/719 "2019-09-26T19:53:15Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Let me throw this out there and see what people think. I’ve mentioned it once, but didn’t get much of a response. > > Joe Biden was essentially Obama’s proxy vis a vis Ukraine. He had, as I understand it, a certain amount of autonomy there, but ultimately was there to carry out Obama’s policies. So in brief, what the fuck would Obama care about Hunter Biden, and the fact that his chances of profiting off of his Dad’s name might be threatened unless he, Obama, took some kind of action? Why would Obama risk his reputation in this way? I am acutely aware that the whole story is nuts, and doesn’t really deserve talking about. But it seems to me at least once, some pundit on CNN or MSNBC or wherever, would raise this question. Is this a reasonable thing to expect? Am I missing something here? “That’s why it needs to be investigated: it sounds so crazy that no one would suspect it was actually happening that way all along! That’s just how devious these people are!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/720 "2019-09-26T19:55:46Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > So sorry. I shouldn’t have jumped the gun. Oh no, not at all. Completely cool. 🙂 I just wanted to make it clear why I didn’t respond. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=37)