# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/61 "2019-09-25T00:32:06Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I’m just afraid the whistleblower could turn out to be an idiot. Like, what if it’s Kato Kaelin? 😃 Yeah me too. If I were Pelosi I would have waited until after the whistleblower testified, or was prevented from doing so before formally making a declaration, just to make sure I didn’t stake the entire process on a pig in a poke. But then she’s got about 100 times more political experience in her little finger than I do in my whole body, and may know some details about the complaint that aren’t public knowledge, so I’ll remain cautiously optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/62 "2019-09-25T00:36:03Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > If the WH is now releasing the whistleblower complaint, it means he and the Republicans have agreed to go the “there’s not enough evidence” route. Trump will be up 5pts next month. They will release a redacted and edited transcript that makes it not that bad. Then they will release a redacted report that makes it worse, but they’ve already set the stage. Then when the full report comes out and is damning, it will seem to be not all that terrible. We already saw this with the Mueller report. It worked then, and this is their plan now. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/63 "2019-09-25T00:40:11Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > . . . or proceedings are stopped before that (in fact, Mitch could refuse to hold it), . . . > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > No he can’t. This canard has been repeatedly disproven in another impeachment thread. From today’s [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/impeachment-trump-explained.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage): “. . . there is no obvious enforcement mechanism if Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, were to simply refuse to convene one — just as he refused to permit a confirmation hearing and vote on Mr. Obama’s nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, to fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2016.” ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/64 "2019-09-25T00:45:13Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They will release a redacted and edited transcript that makes it not that bad. Then they will release a redacted report that makes it worse, but they’ve already set the stage. Then when the full report comes out and is damning, it will seem to be not all that terrible. > > We already saw this with the Mueller report. It worked then, and this is their plan now. In other words… 1. “I didn’t do it” 2. “I didn’t do it but Democrats do it all the time” 3. " OK so I did do it but it’s not a crime" 4. “Yeah I did it but you can’t prosecute a sitting president” 5. “I didn’t do it” Repeat every time he does pretty much anything. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/65 "2019-09-25T01:11:43Z")
[Lawfare has an excellent timeline of events surrounding the Ukraine](https://www.lawfareblog.com/timeline-trump-ukraine-scandal). [The Washington Post has one as well](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/24/full-trump-ukraine-timeline-now/). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/66 "2019-09-25T01:18:29Z")
I don’t know if it is just the Dems on this board or the Dems in Congress too that fail to realize _you don’t want to remove Trump_. If you could nominate someone the least bit electable (which you failed to do in 2016 and seem well on your way to fail again in 2020) you would win the White House in a landslide. If Pence becomes the incumbent you’ll have a harder time of winning. I suspect Pelosi knows this so all of this talk is the hollow noise of politics “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/67 "2019-09-25T01:20:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You’re so absurdly partisan that you’re incapable of having an informed opinion on this issue. I had to see who you were quoting because you just described 96% of this board (and yes that includes most of the Dems here). ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/68 "2019-09-25T01:20:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I don’t know if it is just the Dems on this board or the Dems in Congress too that fail to realize _you don’t want to remove Trump_. If you could nominate someone the least bit electable (which you failed to do in 2016 and seem well on your way to fail again in 2020) you would win the White House in a landslide. If Pence becomes the incumbent you’ll have a harder time of winning. I suspect Pelosi knows this so all of this talk is the hollow noise of politics “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”. Thank you for your concern. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/69 "2019-09-25T01:27:32Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > From today’s [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/impeachment-trump-explained.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage): > “. . . there is no obvious enforcement mechanism if Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, were to simply refuse to convene one — just as he refused to permit a confirmation hearing and vote on Mr. Obama’s nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, to fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2016.” Which goes to show that the New York Times did no research on the topic. Comparing an impeachment trial to a confirmation hearing (different rules and all) should have been your first clue it was written by an idiot. But go ahead and show me in the Senate Rules where the SML can force the CJOTUS to not hold a trial. Go ahead, I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/70 "2019-09-25T01:36:19Z")
A fair chunk of Americans are not willing to say “impeach” until they see what the actual evidence is to this charge. Let’s assume it is real and damning and that fair chunk comes over to “impeach.” You are still left with his hard base that won’t flip no matter what. He won twenty two states by more than 14 points and more than a third by a more than 19 point margin. Senators from those states will vote Trump no matter what even if other Republicans flip. In their states a majority will support Trump. Conviction is pretty unlikely. If the point is to remove him from office before the election it is pretty improbable. The argument can be made that IF the full facts _are_ as damning as the are alleged to be then he might be left with ONLY that hard base and lose everyone else. Stay in office but be destroyed. But yeah alternatively assuming they are true but are seen by the public as just what politicians do then the risk of a backlash is significant. And _even if_ the political calculus adds up negative to the Democratic side this needs to be done. To live in history as having not impeached for what really is true high crimes and abuse of power because of perceived self-interest is not something that Democrats can have happen. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/71 "2019-09-25T01:40:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Pence becomes the incumbent you’ll have a harder time of winning. This part cracks me up. By 2016, Pence’s approval ratings _in Indiana_ were in the toilet. In reliably conservative _Indiana_. Suppose Trump is removed by the Senate, or resigns to keep that from happening. If Pence is allowed to be the default nominee, he’s gonna suck as a candidate. But chances are his fellow GOPers are aware of that, and there’ll be a dogfight for the GOP nomination. Of course, it’s extremely unlikely that Trump will be removed from office, so it’s hardly worth worrying about in the first place. But I think we’ve got that covered. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/72 "2019-09-25T01:40:23Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I’m just afraid the whistleblower could turn out to be an idiot. Like, what if it’s Kato Kaelin? 😃 Or just a guy blowing an actual whistle. That would get old fast. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/73 "2019-09-25T01:42:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Which goes to show that the New York Times did no research on the topic. Comparing an impeachment trial to a confirmation hearing (different rules and all) should have been your first clue it was written by an idiot. But go ahead and show me in the Senate Rules where the SML can force the CJOTUS to not hold a trial. > Go ahead, I’ll wait. Senate business is what the Majority Leader says it is. The claim by the NYT is that there is no obvious means to enforce that said leader to bring it to the senate. How does it get there without that? By what mechanism? The NYT suggests that Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. _may_ actually wield that authority … but it is not clear. You have some text to quote that shows how business can get to the Senate without the Majority Leader bringing it there? Go ahead, show us. We’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/74 "2019-09-25T01:45:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Which goes to show that the New York Times did no research on the topic. Comparing an impeachment trial to a confirmation hearing (different rules and all) should have been your first clue it was written by an idiot. But go ahead and show me in the Senate Rules where the SML can force the CJOTUS to not hold a trial. > Go ahead, I’ll wait. By not accepting the charge? What is to stop him from simply saying, “I will take the House’s charges under advisement” and then sitting on them? Is that unconstitutional? Well, then it would go to SCOTUS to decide, no? Does the constitution have any more to say about such a situation than it does about an Executive who defies Congressional subpoenas? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/75 "2019-09-25T01:52:54Z")
The complete absence of accountability in a political system that was set up as a modern democracy with supposed safeguards is just stunning. The Founders thought they had set up a system of checks and balances but they never counted on having the Senate dominated by a gang of unprincipled Republicans and an equally unprincipled and mendacious administration led by an orange moron. As someone else said somewhere, the problem is much bigger than just Trump, who is just a symptom of a serious political dysfunction. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/76 "2019-09-25T01:54:11Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This part cracks me up. By 2016, Pence’s approval ratings _in Indiana_ were in the toilet. In reliably conservative _Indiana_. > > Suppose Trump is removed by the Senate, or resigns to keep that from happening. If Pence is allowed to be the default nominee, he’s gonna suck as a candidate. But chances are his fellow GOPers are aware of that, and\*\* there’ll be a dogfight for the GOP nomination.\*\* > > Of course, it’s extremely unlikely that Trump will be removed from office, so it’s hardly worth worrying about in the first place. But I think we’ve got that covered. Bolding mine Didn’t I hear something about some of the states doing away with this elections Republican primaries? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/77 "2019-09-25T01:56:18Z")
duplicate ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/78 "2019-09-25T02:05:39Z")
If the house does successfully impeach, I can see Moscow Mitch holding a trial in the senate. It will take 15 - 20 minutes. Vote held, all Republicans against, off they go for lunch. That’s it. Then Trump will crow and crow about how he was “proven innocent”. And all we will hear from then on is “WITCH HUNT”, and EVIL DEMOCRATS" and “POOR INNOCENT TRUMP” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/79 "2019-09-25T02:12:33Z")
As I said elsewhere: “Trump Makes Clear He’s Ready for a Fight He Has Long Anticipated” > **[Trump Makes Clear He’s Ready for a Fight He Has Long Anticipated (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/politics/trump-un.html)** > > Impeachment, he insists, will be “a positive for me.” > [@](#): > > … > He lashed out at the opposition Democrats, denouncing them for “crazy” partisanship. He denounced the allegations against him as “more breaking news Witch Hunt garbage.” And he proclaimed that even if the impeachment battle to come will be bad for the country, it will be “a positive for me” by bolstering his chances to win a second term in next year’s election. > … He loves a fight. Ya can’t be a winner unless you’re in a fight. Lord, what a weak, pathetic loser he is. Maybe I’m blowing sunshine up my own skirt, but I feel the tide is turning against him. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/80 "2019-09-25T02:27:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Is there an update that I’m missing? Last I heard, he was just releasing the call transcript, still keeping the complaint secret. [WaPo says that’s not enough](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/24/why-trump-releasing-transcript-his-call-with-ukraines-president-isnt-enough/): > [@](#): > > The White House is making its own moves, making public a key telephone transcript and preparing to release to Congress a whistleblower’s report as early as Wednesday, according to two sources familiar. Politico first reported the White House’s intention. One source told CNN the whistleblower report is under review and going through declassification and could be released within hours of the transcript release. [https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/24/politics/donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-impeachment-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/24/politics/donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-impeachment-ukraine/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=5)