# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/781 "2019-09-26T23:00:55Z")
I fucked up the spelling of Ukranian, and it’s too late to edit, but thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/782 "2019-09-26T23:14:37Z")
Worrying things we know so far: 1. The call - in which President Trump (having withheld money from Ukraine that was allocated by Congress) indicated he wanted a “favor” and discussed an investigation of Biden’s family. Trump urged Zelinsky to work closely with Barr and Guliani to do this “investigation” 2. The subsequent cover-up and hiding of the documentary evidence of this call, described by a White House official as "an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective,” 3. The trip by Guliani on August 2 to meet with Andriy Yermak, an adviser to Mr. Zelensky as a “direct follow-up” about the “cases” discussed in the phone call. Also, the contacts Mr. Giuliani made to Mr. Zelensky’s chief of staff, Andriy Bohdan, and the head of Ukraine’s security service, Ivan Bakanov, also about Trump’s phone call. Note that Mr. Guliani is not a member of the government - he is a private lawyer hired by Mr. Trump for private business. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/783 "2019-09-26T23:27:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Would like to note that hearing that Paul Ryan, a man who was once Speaker of the House for the first two years of the Trump Administration, now feels like… as a Board Member of Fox News… he finally feels he can do something about Trump. > > Really, that tells you all you need to know about Ryan and the GOP, doesn’t it? QFT ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/784 "2019-09-26T23:27:42Z")
Come to think of it, I’ve never seen even a _photo_ of Hunter Biden. (If Hunter Biden does in fact exist, please do not send me photos of him) ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/785 "2019-09-26T23:29:30Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I fucked up the spelling of Ukranian, and it’s too late to edit, but thanks! That just makes it more realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/786 "2019-09-26T23:44:42Z")
If the allegations against the administration are true, I would support impeachment and conviction. If the president did in fact offer a _quid pro quo_ via Mr. Gulliani, whereupon the Ukrainian government would investigate a political rival’s family for military aid, I would classify such political dirt as solicitation a thing of value from a foreign national under 52 U.S.C. § 30121. Such an offense is, in my opinion, an attempt to subvert the political process (even if it were not a crime under the U.S. Code), and constitutes one of the “high crimes and misdemeanors” mentioned in Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution. I haven’t seen the evidence, nor am I in a position to do so, therefore I reserve judgement as to the outcome. That means I am in favor of an investigation, sworn depositions by Mr. Gulliani, Mr. Barr, Mr. Vulker, and Mr. Sondland. As I have mentioned in another thread, I don’t think such an investigation necessarily needs to be conducted in public unless and until elements of it are actually used to substantiate articles of impeachment. This also means I won’t be making a personal judgement until the articles of impeachment are actually presented. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/787 "2019-09-26T23:50:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is patently absurd. Treason requires enemies. Which “enemies” do you think President Trump may have adhered to / given aid and comfort to? Tramp’s UN ambassador and Putin’s defense minister, both cabinet officers, declared last year that Russia is waging war on the US with military forces. How much support can a USAnian provide without committing treason? I suspect Tramp has a fair idea - hence his fear. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/788 "2019-09-26T23:57:34Z")
[Ghouli Colludiani is losing it!](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/09/giuliani-ukraine-trump-biden/598879/) > [@](#): > > “It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero,” Giuliani told me. > > “I’m not acting as a lawyer. I’m acting as someone who has devoted most of his life to straightening out government,” he continued, sounding out of breath. “Anything I did should be praised.” “I’m not acting as a lawyer.” Let that sink in… ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/789 "2019-09-27T00:08:13Z")
> [@a poster](#): > > No, nothing there mentions the $250M / $391M in aid that was supposedly President Trump’s leverage in his quid pro quo. > > “I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time.” “Effort” & “time”; he didn’t mention the money. > > “… the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.” Again, no mention of aid money. The US was helping Ukraine in lots of ways: sanctions on Russia, condemning Russia’s aggression on the global stage, etc. You are imagining that he _must_ be referring to the aid money because that’s what you _want_ it to be about. You’re hearing something that’s not there, that you badly _want_ to be there. Try to take another look at the bit you quoted through a less partisan lens, and then consider again my statement: “He didn’t even mention the financial aid at all on the call” Verbatim from the phone call, with nothing left out: > [@](#): > > Zelensky: I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes. > > Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though > **[Read the full summary of President Trump's call with Ukrainian President...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/read-the-transcript-summary-president-trump-call-with-ukrainian-president-volodomyr-zelensky/)** > > The White House acknowledged that this is not a full transcript of the controversial call That’s the sequence of remarks. Zelensky mentions aid and Trump says he wants a favor–having just emphasized that the US does “a lot” for Ukraine but that the situation is not “reciprocal.” The defense of Trump that he “didn’t even mention the financial aid” is absurd given the actual facts of the conversation. The Ukrainian says he is grateful for the defense aid, and Trump replies that he wants a favor. Obviously Trump is replying to the man with whom he is in conversation. The theory that no crime is committed if certain words are avoided has been tried in court by many organized crime figures. It doesn’t work. Avoiding certain words is not a defense if the meaning of a conversation is open and available for all to see. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/790 "2019-09-27T00:08:17Z")
A friend of mine in Ukraine shared a meme from Ukrainian social media. It shows Zelensky in a wig and blue dress and reads: “Monica Zelensky. Available for hire to bring impeachment against any U.S. President.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/791 "2019-09-27T00:08:22Z")
> [@an unnamed Fox News Executive (as quoted by Vanity Fair)](#): > > Paul [Ryan] is embarrassed about Trump and now he has the power to do something about it. > [@JohnT](#): > > Would like to note that hearing that Paul Ryan, a man who was once Speaker of the House for the first two years of the Trump Administration, now feels like… as a Board Member of Fox News… he finally feels he can do something about Trump. > > Really, that tells you all you need to know about Ryan and the GOP, doesn’t it? I _ **know!** _ That quote jumped out at me, too, and it really does highlight the absurdity of the situation we’re in, and the total moral bankruptcy of the Republican Party in the Age of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/792 "2019-09-27T00:11:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Ghouli Colludiani is losing it!](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/09/giuliani-ukraine-trump-biden/598879/)“I’m not acting as a lawyer.” > > Let that sink in… The obvious response is ‘he’s setting up an insanity defense.’ But seriously, he knows Trump will throw him under the bus without a second thought. If Trump believes he can save himself by claiming ‘_it was all Rudy, it was all his idea, he made me say those things, he was free-lancing, I never told him to extort the Ukraine president, it was all Rudy_,’ then of course he will do so. Giuliani knows this. He’s going to be flailing pretty manically until this is settled, one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/793 "2019-09-27T00:13:59Z")
Just found this. Amazing. From May 18th: > > > Rudy W. Giuliani @RudyGiuliani ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/794 "2019-09-27T00:14:50Z")
> [@Giuliani](#): > > It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero! When they make the movie, this line’s gonna be in there. And the screenwriters will get panned for putting obvious villain dialogue in the villain’s mouth. I think they’ll cast [Buddy Pine](https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Syndrome) to play Giuliani. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/795 "2019-09-27T00:18:45Z")
I supported Giuliani for president. I don’t know what to say for myself. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/796 "2019-09-27T00:24:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I supported Giuliani for president. I don’t know what to say for myself. Don’t feel bad. If McCain has gotten the nomination in 2000 instead of W., I would have given _serious_ consideration (not knowing then what I knew in later years) to voting Republican for the first time in my life. So, I’ve been there, mate. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/797 "2019-09-27T00:26:16Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I supported Giuliani for president. I don’t know what to say for myself. Hey, millions thought he was smart, decent, and competent. The covers of major periodicals even said so. I suppose Nero probably had some supporters in his earlier years, too. People don’t always show their true colors right away. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/798 "2019-09-27T00:27:22Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > If the allegations against the administration are true, I would support impeachment and conviction. If the president did in fact offer a _quid pro quo_ via Mr. Gulliani, whereupon the Ukrainian government would investigate a political rival’s family for military aid, I would classify such political dirt as solicitation a thing of value from a foreign national under 52 U.S.C. § 30121. Such an offense is, in my opinion, an attempt to subvert the political process (even if it were not a crime under the U.S. Code), and constitutes one of the “high crimes and misdemeanors” mentioned in Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution. > > I haven’t seen the evidence, nor am I in a position to do so, therefore I reserve judgement as to the outcome. That means I am in favor of an investigation, sworn depositions by Mr. Gulliani, Mr. Barr, Mr. Vulker, and Mr. Sondland. > > As I have mentioned in another thread, I don’t think such an investigation necessarily needs to be conducted in public unless and until elements of it are actually used to substantiate articles of impeachment. This also means I won’t be making a personal judgement until the articles of impeachment are actually presented. > > ~Max I see it as straight up extortion. Not quid pro quo. To put it bluntly - “Do this for me, or you are gonna be fucked”. That’s not quid pro quo, it’s not bribery. It’s extortion. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/799 "2019-09-27T00:29:45Z")
I can’t keep up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been posted. If you have ever seen “The Godfather”, this is priceless: [https://twitter.com/larrynoble\_dc/status/1176980507667652608?s=21](https://twitter.com/larrynoble_dc/status/1176980507667652608?s=21) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/800 "2019-09-27T00:35:50Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I supported Giuliani for president. I don’t know what to say for myself. I think he just went bonkers over time. There’s some Trump sycophants who are in it for real, some that are putting on an act to maintain political power, and a few who just went bonkers. Rudy is not mentally healthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=41)