# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1161 "2019-09-29T21:41:03Z")
Everyone is talking about Trump’s base being engaged… The last time they had an opportunity to show this, they got smoked as a home team favorite while many of the refs were in their pockets. Remember how the notoriously bad at turning out for midterm elections Democrats/liberals overcame a decade of gerrymandering and flipped a record number of seats in 2018? Those results are the difference between Schiff actually leading real investigations rather than the sham that was Nunes. This is actual oversight. And no matter how things go, the same engaged electorate that flipped the House in 2018 will still be there in 2020. And they’ll be even more pissed than before. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1162 "2019-09-29T22:49:52Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > They’re going with the “we didn’t do anything wrong defense.” Yes, and also the “muddy the story up with a lot of details that will exhaust those trying to pay attention” defense. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > This SHOULD be a slam dunk but, as usual, the Democrats are on the verge of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They’re doing what they always do, playing defense while letting the opposition control the conversation. > > Because the talk seems to have pivoted to “Did Hunter Biden commit any crimes?” . Dems need to be ready with lists of prominent Republicans who’ve served on boards of directors for handsome fees, without possessing any expertise in what the company does. That state of affairs is the norm, and Dems shouldn’t be letting Trump-defenders get away with saying (or implying) that it isn’t. For example: Nikki Haley is on the board of Boeing—despite having no aerospace expertise. > **[Boeing Nominates Nikki Haley to Join Board of Directors](https://fortune.com/2019/02/26/nikki-haley-boeing-board-of-directors/)** > > Is this the "step up" in the private sector that she was seeking? Paul Ryan, famously, joined the board of Fox—despite having no work experience running a television network. > **[Former House Speaker Paul Ryan joins board of Fox News' parent company](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/19/former-house-speaker-paul-ryan-joins-board-of-fox-news-parent-company.html)** > > The new Fox Corp. begin trading publicly following the completion of Walt Disney's purchase of 21st Century Fox. Mitt Romney was on the board of Marriott—despite having no experience in the hotel industry. > **[Mitt Romney rejoins Marriott board of directors](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/12/03/mitt-romney-marriott-board/1743371/)** > > This is the third stint on the hotel chain's board for the GOP presidential nominee. Interesting sidelight on Romney: apparently some on the right are anxious to tie him to, wait for it, Hunter Biden: > [@](#): > > Top Romney Adviser Worked With Hunter Biden On Board Of Ukrainian Energy Company > SEPTEMBER 26, 2019 By Erielle Davidson > As Democrats and the media remain fanatically obsessed with assembling some form of a “quid pro quo” from the infamous Trump-Zelensky phone call, new details have emerged regarding Burisma, the company for which Hunter Biden worked and the company that Ukraine’s top prosecutor had been investigating before Vice President Joe Biden had the prosecutor fired via a months-long pressure campaign. According to web archives, top Mitt Romney adviser Joseph Cofer Black, who publicly goes by “Cofer Black,” joined Burisma’s board of directors while Hunter Biden was also serving on the board. > > According to The New Yorker, Hunter joined Burisma’s board in April of 2014 and remained on it until he declined to renew his position this past May. Meanwhile, according to Burisma’s website, Black was appointed in February of 2017 and continues to serve on its board. The timelines would indicate that Black and Biden worked together at Burisma, and indeed, web archives from late 2017 show Black and Biden listed simultaneously on the board. > **[Top Romney Adviser Worked With Hunter Biden On Board Of Ukrainian Energy Company](https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/26/top-romney-adviser-worked-with-hunter-biden-on-board-of-ukrainian-energy-company/)** > > According to web archives, top Romney adviser Joseph Cofer Black joined Burisma’s board of directors while Hunter Biden was also serving on the board. Notice how the Federalist writer sneaks in an implication that Biden had someone actually investigating his son fired (he didn’t, but that doesn’t stop _The Federalist_ from saying he did!) At any rate: for every talking point the Trump defenders have, there are good and credible counters. Democrats need to be ready to share them when Trump fans start spreading the lies. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1163 "2019-09-29T23:28:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A related question for Dopers to make predictive WAGs at: what will be the lowest Trump hits on approval? > > I’m betting no lower than 33%. Note he is current at 42.8, has been below 37 before and that Carter got down under 29 and Nixon under 25%. But I’m thinking that this turd’s third won’t move no matter what. Assuming FOX News continues to carry his water, 39-40% probably is the bottom. If they abandon him, maybe somewhere in the low 30s per your quote. Methodology: entirely WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1164 "2019-09-29T23:35:15Z")
Yes, if Lachlan Murcdoch decides to drop him, it’s a game-changer. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1165 "2019-09-30T00:00:21Z")
Chris Wallace has been pretty tough on Trump and has almost been acting like a real journalist lately. Maybe he’s the test case. If he doesn’t get shot, Fox will start to move away from Trump. Has Fox been talking up Pence lately? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1166 "2019-09-30T00:13:54Z")
The right seems to have settled in on the “Well, it was just hearsay” defense. Can someone explain to me how that makes even the slightest bit of sense considering we have access to this transcript? How do they get away with making these arguments that don’t remotely make any sense on their face? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1167 "2019-09-30T00:18:02Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The right seems to have settled in on the “Well, it was just hearsay” defense. Can someone explain to me how that makes even the slightest bit of sense considering we have access to this transcript? How do they get away with making these arguments that don’t remotely make any sense on their face? It doesn’t have to make sense. It’s just something to yell at people who criticize the Great White Hope. “_It’s ALL HEARSAY!1!!! How about Biden’s crimes, huh? Why aren’t you talking about that!!!_”…that’s how you do it. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1168 "2019-09-30T00:49:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A related question for Dopers to make predictive WAGs at: what will be the lowest Trump hits on approval? > > I’m betting no lower than 33%. Note he is current at 42.8, has been below 37 before and that Carter got down under 29 and Nixon under 25%. But I’m thinking that this turd’s third won’t move no matter what. I’ll say 32%. That’s about how many, I think, are finding it difficult to admit that they were wrong (12%), plus the 20% who are truly hardcore, racist jerkwads who really _wouldn’t_ care if Trump shot someone on Fifth Avenue. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1169 "2019-09-30T02:30:53Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > … > Because the talk seems to have pivoted to “Did Hunter Biden commit any crimes?” And I watched Meet the Press and some other news shows this morning and no one is even mentioning that we have legitimate channels for investigating such things if they are worth investigating. > > ITS A CRITICAL POINT. THERE WAS NO LEGITIMATE REASON TO SEND GIULIANI OUT TO HARASS FOREIGN DIPLOMATS NO MATTER WHAT HUNTER BIDEN DID. … OK, revisiting this. What if I told you that to my suprise, too, Faux Friggin News asked the question. Asked it to a beady eyed bastard who looks like he licks blood off of sharp knives? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/S2XcCU7rLgg/maxresdefault.jpg "Fox host schools Trump adviser in humiliating whistleblower interview") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XcCU7rLgg) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1170 "2019-09-30T03:09:08Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The right seems to have settled in on the “Well, it was just hearsay” defense. Can someone explain to me how that makes even the slightest bit of sense considering we have access to this transcript? How do they get away with making these arguments that don’t remotely make any sense on their face? Can you link to the transcript? I thought there was only a memorandum summarizing the transcript. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1171 "2019-09-30T03:25:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A related question for Dopers to make predictive WAGs at: what will be the lowest Trump hits on approval? > > I’m betting no lower than 33%. Note he is current at 42.8, has been below 37 before and that Carter got down under 29 and Nixon under 25%. But I’m thinking that this turd’s third won’t move no matter what. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Assuming FOX News continues to carry his water, 39-40% probably is the bottom. If they abandon him, maybe somewhere in the low 30s per your quote. > > Methodology: entirely WAG. I agree with **El Kabong**. If Fox “News” continues to shill, it will buoy him up by 5-8%. If they make the hard decision, easy low 30s. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1172 "2019-09-30T03:26:51Z")
I sont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me the democrats might be better off not impeaching Trump because if they do, well their goes their main debate point - which one hates Trump more. However with Trump gone then the republicans might find someone better and harder to beat. I mean right now their whole speal is about Trump being the worlds worst boogeyman. What will they have to run on without Trump? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1173 "2019-09-30T03:35:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I sont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me the democrats might be better off not impeaching Trump because if they do, well their goes their main debate point - which one hates Trump more. However with Trump gone then the republicans might find someone better and harder to beat. > > I mean right now their whole speal is about Trump being the worlds worst boogeyman. What will they have to run on without Trump? Clearly you didn’t have time to actually watch any of the debates, either. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1174 "2019-09-30T03:44:12Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Can you link to the transcript? I thought there was only a memorandum summarizing the transcript. > > ~Max Apologies, this should have read “a memorandum showing what White House situation room staff heard”. Which is, by definition, hearsay. ETA: Easily resolved by bringing in the staffers for depositions, “did you actually hear this?” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1175 "2019-09-30T04:03:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Even sillier was one meme that had Donald getting impeached and convicted, Pence naming him to be the new vice president, and then resigning in order to put him right back in the White House. Apparently they’re unaware that both houses of Congress must confirm a vice presidential appointment, so for this scheme to work both houses would have to deem him unfit for the presidency and then say he’s perfectly fit to be vice president. The Constitution limits the penalties for being impeached to two things: 1) removal from office and 2) prohibition on holding future offices. (He still could be prosecuted for actions made while President, provided he wasn’t preemptively pardoned like Nixon was. But that’s beyond the scope of the impeachment.) So if Trump is impeached, he couldn’t be nominated as VP, nor could he run for President. It’d be really bizarre if he lost the presidency to impeachment and then was almost immediatrely reelected. Although that happened not too long ago to a mayor somewhere who was recalled and then won the election to fill the vacancy. Those who recalled him split their votes on two other candidates, and the former mayor won with a plurality. But getting recalled is different than being impeached and doesn’t have the prohibition on future office holding. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1176 "2019-09-30T04:05:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A related question for Dopers to make predictive WAGs at: what will be the lowest Trump hits on approval? > > I’m betting no lower than 33%. Note he is current at 42.8, has been below 37 before and that Carter got down under 29 and Nixon under 25%. But I’m thinking that this turd’s third won’t move no matter what. Based on [crazification factor](http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html), 27%. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1177 "2019-09-30T04:22:13Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I sont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me the democrats might be better off not impeaching Trump because if they do, well their goes their main debate point - which one hates Trump more. However with Trump gone then the republicans might find someone better and harder to beat. You think that if Trump is forcibly removed from office early that he and his “associates” will simply retire quietly into the background? And that in the course of 13 months, voters will simply forget the shitstorm the GOP has inflicted upon us over the past three years and flock to “someone better?” This stink can’t be cleaned up that fast. And I also suggest reading this thread and watching the Dem debates. You might be surprised what the main debate point actually is for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1178 "2019-09-30T04:31:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > **[How Mitch McConnell could give impeachment the Merrick Garland treatment](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/09/28/mitch-mcconnell-trump-impeachment-007689)** **Saint Cad** , over in the first thread, INSISTED that Mitch couldn’t do this, after all, **Saint Cad** had read some senate rules, and told all of us, in no uncertainly terms we were wrong, wrong wrong. Apparently, **Saint Cad** is wrong. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1179 "2019-09-30T05:15:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I sont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me the democrats might be better off not impeaching Trump because if they do, well their goes their main debate point - which one hates Trump more. However with Trump gone then the republicans might find someone better and harder to beat. > > I mean right now their whole speal is about Trump being the worlds worst boogeyman. What will they have to run on without Trump? Others already pointed out that you evidently are mistaken on what “main debate points” are. I will also add that everyone knows impeaching Trump has political risks. But you can only live in fear for while a bull is trashing a china shop for so long before you have to try and stop the bull. I realize that to Republicans taking a principled stand might seem curious, but that’s because they abandoned any pretense of principle the moment they hitched their wagon to Trump. Watching the defenses of his actions and words just reinforces that belief. I mean, take a look at the [list of things](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama) that actual Republican members of congress floated as impeachable offenses when Obama was in office. Then imagine Obama doing the things that Trump has openly admitted to doing and realize how unprincipled they really are. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1180 "2019-09-30T05:24:43Z")
[quote=“bobot, post:1169, topic:840771”] OK, revisiting this. What if I told you that to my suprise, too, Faux Friggin News asked the question. Asked it to a beady eyed bastard who looks like he licks blood off of sharp knives? [/QUOTE] Chris asked him some tough questions but, of course, Miller was Miller. I wanted Chris to reach over and snatch the tongue out of that smug liddle’ lizard’s mouth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=60)