# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1181 "2019-09-30T06:20:29Z")
So Guiliani says he’ll cooperate if his terms are followed: > **[Giuliani says he will cooperate with Trump impeachment inquiry — only if the...](https://news.yahoo.com/giuliani-says-he-will-cooperate-with-trump-impeachment-inquiry-only-if-the-president-gives-him-the-green-light-201452352.html)** > > President Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, said Sunday he would cooperate the House impeachment inquiry, but only if directed by his client. Isn’t that a novel idea? If ever I get in trouble with the law, I will declare that the judge’s politics are very partisan and are the exact opposite of mine and on that basis alone I’m under no obligation to cooperate. I’ll say “you’re not a legit judge, I’m the judge!” ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1182 "2019-09-30T06:29:55Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Chris asked him some tough questions but, of course, Miller was Miller. I wanted Chris to reach over and snatch the tongue out of that smug liddle’ lizard’s mouth. Matthews is pretty good. Shep Smith, too. The actual trained journalists at that Shit-Canker of a network seem to have\* some\* sense of actually advancing a story and doing so fairly. It’s such a bizarre contrast between the news-side and the editorial-side. Chris Matthews positively spit-roasted that bloodless ghoul. Miller would have shit his panties if he had an actual Soul. He couldn’t get outta there fast enough, back to Gehenna to suck Satan’s cock. Only after the Dark Lord’s worm-infested jism was roiling in his belly would he be able to stop quaking and sleep like a kitten in Hitler’s lap. ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1183 "2019-09-30T06:54:34Z")
[quote=“bobot, post:1169, topic:840771”] OK, revisiting this. What if I told you that to my suprise, too, Faux Friggin News asked the question. Asked it to a beady eyed bastard who looks like he licks blood off of sharp knives? [/QUOTE] Wait, was that the right clip? Or did you mean to post [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppWi_bhS2eQ?start=0&end=6)? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1184 "2019-09-30T06:58:53Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Apologies, this should have read “a memorandum showing what White House situation room staff heard”. Which is, by definition, hearsay. > > ETA: Easily resolved by bringing in the staffers for depositions, “did you actually hear this?” > > ~Max Even more easily resolved with a subpoena for the word-for-word contemporaneous transcript that was improperly “upclassified” and stored on the codeword-classified server intended for national security matters (as opposed to “politically-embarrassing” ones). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1185 "2019-09-30T07:10:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The Constitution limits the penalties for being impeached to two things: 1) removal from office and 2) prohibition on holding future offices. (He still could be prosecuted for actions made while President, provided he wasn’t preemptively pardoned like Nixon was. But that’s beyond the scope of the impeachment.) So if Trump is impeached, he couldn’t be nominated as VP, nor could he run for President. > > It’d be really bizarre if he lost the presidency to impeachment and then was almost immediatr\ely reelected. Although that happened not too long ago to a mayor somewhere who was recalled and then won the election to fill the vacancy. Those who recalled him split their votes on two other candidates, and the former mayor won with a plurality. But getting recalled is different than being impeached and doesn’t have the prohibition on future office holding. IIUC, those two potential penalties are not necessarily conjoined. Common sense certainly suggests that if you had to go to the trouble of removing someone from public office, you might as well prohibit them from holding office later … but common sense and the law are also not necessarily conjoined. We find, [here](https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/49-judgment-removal-and-disqualification.html), that … > [@](#): > > **Judgment - Removal and Disqualification** > > \*SECTION 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. > \* > Annotations > > Article II, section 4 provides that officers impeached and convicted “shall be removed from office”; Article I, section 3, clause 7 provides further that “judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.” These restrictions on judgment, both of which relate to capacity to hold public office, emphasize the non-penal nature of impeachment, and help to distinguish American impeachment from the open-ended English practice under which criminal penalties could be imposed. > > The plain language of section 4 seems to require removal from office upon conviction, and in fact the Senate has removed those persons whom it has convicted. In the 1936 trial of Judge Ritter, the Senate determined that **removal is automatic upon conviction** , and does not require a separate vote. This practice has continued. Because conviction requires a two-thirds vote, this means that removal can occur only as a result of a two-thirds vote. **Unlike removal, disqualification from office is a discretionary judgment** , and there is no explicit constitutional linkage to the two-thirds vote on conviction. Although an argument can be made that disqualification should nonetheless require a two-thirds vote, the Senate has determined that disqualification may be accomplished by a simple majority vote. ( **emphases** mine) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1186 "2019-09-30T07:39:19Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Apologies, this should have read “a memorandum showing what White House situation room staff heard”. Which is, by definition, hearsay. > > ETA: Easily resolved by bringing in the staffers for depositions, “did you actually hear this?” > > ~Max It’s cute that you think the #Notatranscript hashtag is a legitimate defense. You’ll be happy to know that in the very footnotes of the memorandum, it says it was based, at least in part, on “notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty Officers” - people who heard the calls - and [Situation Room CIA veterans say Trump transcript likely complete and accurate](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/largely-verbatim-situation-room-cia-veterans-say-trump-transcript-likely-complete-and-accurate). IOW, not “by definition, hearsay.” ---
**Author:** ![Celidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Celidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celidin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1187 "2019-09-30T11:40:11Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Apologies, this should have read “a memorandum showing what White House situation room staff heard”. Which is, by definition, hearsay. > > ETA: Easily resolved by bringing in the staffers for depositions, “did you actually hear this?” > > ~Max George Conway did an excellent Twitter thread over the weekend on why the memorandum isn’t hearsay (in direct response to Lindsay Graham). Tl;dr version: It’s not hearsay. For like 6 different reasons. > > > Lindsey Graham @LindseyGrahamSC ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1188 "2019-09-30T12:03:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I sont have time to read all 24 pages of this thread but it seems to me the democrats might be better off not impeaching Trump because if they do, well their goes their main debate point - which one hates Trump more. However with Trump gone then the republicans might find someone better and harder to beat. > > I mean right now their whole speal is about Trump being the worlds worst boogeyman. What will they have to run on without Trump? Well, I never expected that conservatives would come up with the friendly advice to liberals, “Trump is TOO BIG of a lawbreaker to remove from office!” Do you have suggestions on what types of crimes are not too big and not too small for removal from office? Let me guess, blowjobs and obstruction of justice? Oh wait, not obstruction, that hits too close to home. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1189 "2019-09-30T12:06:50Z")
I can’t imagine that McConnell would stonewall a vote to avoid going on the record. Assuming that nothing comes to light that essentially “requires” they convict, my guess would be that he’d like to put it off until closer to the election to get a boost from the “Trump Innocent of Charges!” headlines. I think he’d be correctly figuring that the avg undecided centrist doesn’t understand this is a political process and that an exoneration would be seen as proving the Dems were on a witch-hunt. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1190 "2019-09-30T12:11:34Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Chris Wallace has been pretty tough on Trump and has almost been acting like a real journalist lately. Maybe he’s the test case. If he doesn’t get shot, Fox will start to move away from Trump. > > Has Fox been talking up Pence lately? I’ve always thought Wallace was conservative but fair. His brand is all about ball-busting interviews and he’s always been an equal opportunity ball-buster. He also ran the best of the debates back in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1191 "2019-09-30T12:22:36Z")
So, I’ve decided to write my congressman, Fred Upton (Michigan 6th). What, or more importantly, _how_ should I express to him why he needs to vote to impeach Trump when (failing some revelation that the summary transcript we’ve already seen is some kind of elaborate hoax) that vote is called several weeks from now? I want to believe a well crafted paragraph would go farther to sway him than a simple “Impeach him.” would. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1192 "2019-09-30T12:44:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, I never expected that conservatives would come up with the friendly advice to liberals, “Trump is TOO BIG of a lawbreaker to remove from office!” > > Do you have suggestions on what types of crimes are not too big and not too small for removal from office? Let me guess, blowjobs and obstruction of justice? Oh wait, not obstruction, that hits too close to home. Also, “if you Dems aren’t careful, Republicans may run someone even more popular than Trump!” Yes, that ol’ Mike Pence will definitely rally the country around his, uh, unique views. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1193 "2019-09-30T13:13:53Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I’ve always thought Wallace was conservative but fair. His brand is all about ball-busting interviews and he’s always been an equal opportunity ball-buster. He also ran the best of the debates back in 2016. I agree about Wallace. Pre-Trump, I disliked him because I disagreed with most of his opinions, but at least the opinions were based on reality. Shepard Smith and Brett Baier also qualify as real journalists. Baier should do something about that cereal bowl haircut and shoe polish dye job, but still… Good for them. These men are very important right now. Because they actually reach the audience that needs to be reached. I don’t see much evidence that it helps, but I’m glad that network hasn’t gone totally off the rails. Close, but not totally. One America News is absolutely terrifying, though. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1194 "2019-09-30T13:17:43Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Also, “if you Dems aren’t careful, Republicans may run someone even more popular than Trump!” Yes, that ol’ Mike Pence will definitely rally the country around his, uh, unique views. #Romney/Ryan2020 - because why the fuck not? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1195 "2019-09-30T13:40:03Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > So, I’ve decided to write my congressman, Fred Upton (Michigan 6th). What, or more importantly, _how_ should I express to him why he needs to vote to impeach Trump when (failing some revelation that the summary transcript we’ve already seen is some kind of elaborate hoax) that vote is called several weeks from now? I want to believe a well crafted paragraph would go farther to sway him than a simple “Impeach him.” would. "Congressman Upton, Thank you for listening to one of your constituents, I truly appreciate it. I support the impeachment of Donald J. Trump from the office of the Presidency of the United States, and I can not support a Congressman who does not join me in ridding America of this criminal Presidency. Article 2, Section 4 of the US Constitution lists “Bribery” as an impeachable offense for all Civil Servants, including the President of the United States. Donald Trump, using _my_ taxpayer dollars, bribed\* the Government of Ukraine to investigate private American Citizens for his own political and personal gain. The preceding sentence is not hearsay - it is explicitly stated as a _quid pro quo_, a “favor, though” in the White House’s own transcript/memorandum of this phone call. When I grew up, sir, the Republican Party was lead by Ronald Reagan, with a legacy which included men such as Eisenhower, Roosevelt, and Lincoln. It is time to rid the Party of this mad carnival barker, this… and I hate to say it… this “Putin puppet”… so the GOP may regroup and think about the future. As it stands, with Trump as the party leader I find it extremely difficult to vote for _any_ Republican, no matter what the office: local, state, national. In my conversations with friends, family, and associates, my views are widespread and shared, and I am no longer remaining silent on the need to remove this President from the office, and I fully expect your support… as my support to you is contingent upon your views on this matter. Thank you, …" \*He did bribe them, after all. He made the threat, Zelensky made the changes, Trump then released the money… + $149 million which Ditka tried to handwave away but still looks shady af. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1196 "2019-09-30T13:53:54Z")
Gonna cross-post this: **If you’re not calling your Representatives and Senators _today_, then you’re not moving the needle.** Make your calls. Even if you support this shit, make your calls. Directory of Representatives: [Representatives | house.gov](https://www.house.gov/representatives) Directory of Senators: [U.S. Senate: Contacting U.S. Senators](https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm) "Hi, my name is ThelmaLou, I live in zip code XXXXX in the great city of YYYY, and I want to let the Representative/Senator know that I support the impeachment of Donald J Trump from the Presidency of the United States (“under the ‘Bribery’ clause in article 2, section 4 of the US Constitution” _for those of you who want to give a reason._) In addition, my support of the Rep/Sen in the upcoming election is completely contingent upon their supporting the impeachment of Donald J. Trump. Lastly, my support of _any_ Republican in 2020 is contingent to how this plays out. If Donald Trump is on the ticket, I will not vote for any down-ballot Republican. I may not vote for the Democrat, but I definitely won’t vote for the Republican. Thank you. Do you need anything else?" ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1197 "2019-09-30T14:04:00Z")
This is interesting. There seems to be some strong circumstantial evidence that Rump snubbed Ukraine because Putin. > **[Russia’s Fingerprints Are All Over Trump’s Ukraine Whistleblower Scandal](https://www.thedailybeast.com/russias-fingerprints-are-all-over-trumps-ukraine-whistleblower-scandal)** > > Prominent figures on Russian TV have been openly putting out the same ideas that we now know the American president was privately pursuing. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1198 "2019-09-30T14:09:16Z")
Is it hearsay if I got this news from Ann Hedonia? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1199 "2019-09-30T14:18:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Is it hearsay if I got this news from Ann Hedonia? 😉 It’s hearsay if you weren’t in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1200 "2019-09-30T14:24:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lastly, my support of _any_ Republican in 2020 is contingent to how this plays out. If Donald Trump is on the ticket, I will not vote for any down-ballot Republican. I may not vote for the Democrat, but I definitely won’t vote for the Republican. I couldn’t in good faith say this because I’ve been there for the past 10 years. I guess I could threaten to send money the Dems’ way for the first time in my life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=61)