# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1201 "2019-09-30T14:31:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > "Congressman Upton, > > Thank you for listening to one of your constituents, I truly appreciate it. > > I support the impeachment of Donald J. Trump from the office of the Presidency of the United States… Done (with a minor edit). Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1202 "2019-09-30T14:31:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Gonna cross-post this: > > **If you’re not calling your Representatives and Senators _today_, then you’re not moving the needle.** > > Make your calls. Even if you support this shit, make your calls. > > Directory of Representatives: [https://www.house.gov/representatives](https://www.house.gov/representatives) > > Directory of Senators: [U.S. Senate: Contacting U.S. Senators](https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm) > > "Hi, my name is ThelmaLou, I live in zip code XXXXX in the great city of YYYY, and I want to let the Representative/Senator know that I support the impeachment of Donald J Trump from the Presidency of the United States (“under the ‘Bribery’ clause in article 2, section 4 of the US Constitution” _for those of you who want to give a reason._) > > In addition, my support of the Rep/Sen in the upcoming election is completely contingent upon their supporting the impeachment of Donald J. Trump. > > Lastly, my support of _any_ Republican in 2020 is contingent to how this plays out. If Donald Trump is on the ticket, I will not vote for any down-ballot Republican. I may not vote for the Democrat, but I definitely won’t vote for the Republican. > > Thank you. Do you need anything else?" Curious - what’s to stop people from outside, say, Kentucky, from using a random Kentucky address to contact McConnell pretending to be a supporter in favor of impeaching Trump? Do they verify in some way before tallying support numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1203 "2019-09-30T14:34:47Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > It’s cute that you think the #Notatranscript hashtag is a legitimate defense. > > You’ll be happy to know that in the very footnotes of the memorandum, it says it was based, at least in part, on “notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty Officers” - people who heard the calls - and [Situation Room CIA veterans say Trump transcript likely complete and accurate](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/largely-verbatim-situation-room-cia-veterans-say-trump-transcript-likely-complete-and-accurate). > > IOW, not “by definition, hearsay.” I’m not familiar with the hashtag, but until somebody who was on the call goes under oath and says they heard Mr. Trump say those words, the content of the memorandum itself is hearsay. The exception to the hearsay rules allows staffers to testify that they heard Mr. Trump say something if Mr. Trump himself is unavailable to testify. They do not allow a memorandum written by his staffers about what he said to be entered into evidence unless somebody with direct knowledge testifies as to that memorandum’s accuracy. Especially if the staffers are available to testify. If a machine transcribed the call, and nobody with direct knowledge is available to testify, someone would have to come in and testify as to the reliability of the machine. This is not a bar to an inquiry, impeachment, or conviction unless Congress wants it to be. And it is easily resolved by questioning the staffers under oath. “Sir, were you listening when Mr. Trump spoke with Mr. Zelensky on July 25, 2019?” “Yes.” “Very good. Remember that you are under oath. Do you remember hearing Mr. Trump say, quote…” “Yes.” “Are you certain that Mr. Trump spoke those exact words?” “I am not certain, but I am fairly confident based on my contemporaneous notes…” I can’t imagine why anyone would object to this. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1204 "2019-09-30T14:35:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lastly, my support of _any_ Republican in 2020 is contingent to how this plays out. If Donald Trump is on the ticket, I will not vote for any down-ballot Republican. I may not vote for the Democrat, but I definitely won’t vote for the Republican. > > Thank you. Do you need anything else?" Saying you may not vote for the Democrat takes away some of the leverage that you seek. Do you think DJT gave a shit whether you voted for Jill Stein in 2016? Hell no, he just cared that you didn’t vote for Hillary. The next few weeks will be crucial. We need the whistleblower to tell us who the other witnesses are and get them to testify. Then get transcripts of the other calls to Ukraine as well as those to Putin. They’ll fight it in court, but the courts would expedite such cases. Have to get this in front of the people before the holidays take over. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1205 "2019-09-30T14:38:00Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I couldn’t in good faith say this because I’ve been there for the past 10 years. I guess I could threaten to send money the Dems’ way for the first time in my life. Naw, I have no problem saying that. Telling them I’m not going to vote down-ballot Republican if I see Donald J Trump on the ballot is nothing but the Gods-Honest truth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1206 "2019-09-30T14:40:23Z")
Sorry, Max S. but contemporaneous records are not “by definition hearsay”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1207 "2019-09-30T14:41:35Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Curious - what’s to stop people from outside, say, Kentucky, from using a random Kentucky address to contact McConnell pretending to be a supporter in favor of impeaching Trump? Do they verify in some way before tallying support numbers? My reps & senators ask for zip code or email address. Not exactly the most foolproof system, to be honest. I could call Moscow Mitch and claim to be a Kentuckian (sp?), but that seems a little over the edge and dishonest - just as fine telling him I’m a pissed off Texan, and if they ignore me, that’s up to them. But I wouldn’t lie. That would be, uh, “election interference”, would it not? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1208 "2019-09-30T14:44:24Z")
Can someone tell me how this argument [makes any sense?](https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1178678932511559680): "We can’t have process designed to destroy the presidency that relies on anonymous accusers or hearsay accusations. If the transcript of the phone call is the only basis for impeachment – what a joke." The transcript was released by the White House. Trump has corroborated what it says. I don’t get how this makes even enough sense for a GOP talking point. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1209 "2019-09-30T14:46:22Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Saying you may not vote for the Democrat takes away some of the leverage that you seek. Do you think DJT gave a shit whether you voted for Jill Stein in 2016? Hell no, he just cared that you didn’t vote for Hillary. > > The next few weeks will be crucial. We need the whistleblower to tell us who the other witnesses are and get them to testify. Then get transcripts of the other calls to Ukraine as well as those to Putin. They’ll fight it in court, but the courts would expedite such cases. Have to get this in front of the people before the holidays take over. Obviously rewrite it to something that reflects your views on the subject - since I have Cruz and Cornyn on my list of Senators, I preferred to couch today’s argument in terms of the down-ballot impact their non-support of impeachment will have. If I had the Castro brothers as my Senators, my post above would’ve been cast a little differently. 😉 Obviously YMMV. (If I would’ve written that post tomorrow, it would’ve been about national security concerns or something completely different. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1210 "2019-09-30T14:47:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sorry, Max S. but contemporaneous records are not “by definition hearsay”. “Sir, your secretary entered, in no fewer than 14 calendar assignments, dates with your mistress.” “Well, that’s hearsay. I didn’t make the calendar entries!” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1211 "2019-09-30T14:48:20Z")
No one is trying to destroy the presidency. Restore the presidency is more like it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1212 "2019-09-30T14:48:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Another Critical Revelation - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime/another-critical-revelation) > > The DNI and IG made a criminal referral regarding the whistleblower complaint, but Barr and the DOJ shut it down. > > Showing once again that Barr is a highly corrupt and dishonest official, even compared to the rest of the Trump administration. Does Ukraine have a Vice President? Maybe that guy could lobby for Barr to be removed. Then we’d be all even-Stevens, right? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1213 "2019-09-30T14:51:09Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > It’s hearsay if you weren’t in the room. Is cyberspace a room? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1214 "2019-09-30T14:52:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Sir, your secretary entered, in no fewer than 14 calendar assignments, dates with your mistress.” > “Well, that’s hearsay. I didn’t make the calendar entries!” Or how about a murder trial where the victim kept a “I’m being stalked” diary and the murderer kept a “I’m stalking someone” journal. One author is dead and the other might decline to testify as a witness, so neither diary can be used in court? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1215 "2019-09-30T14:53:38Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Done (with a minor edit). Thanks. Your welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1216 "2019-09-30T15:13:04Z")
> [@Celidin](#): > > George Conway did an excellent Twitter thread over the weekend on why the memorandum isn’t hearsay (in direct response to Lindsay Graham). > > Tl;dr version: It’s not hearsay. For like 6 different reasons. > > [https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1177995935332409344?lang=en](https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1177995935332409344?lang=en) Mr. Conway’s reasons are: [ol][li]Mr. Trump’s statements are not hearsay according to Federal Rule of Evidence 801(d)(2).[/li][li]Mr. Trump’s statements are not hearsay according to the exception in Rule 804(b)(3).[/li][li]Mr. Guiliani’s statements are admissible against Trump and not hearsay under Rule 804(b)(3).[/li][li]The memorandum is not hearsay due to Rule 803(1).[/li][li]The memorandum is not hearsay due to Rule 803(5).[/li][li]The memorandum is not hearsay due to Rule 803(6).[/li][li]The memorandum is not hearsay due to Rule 803(8).[/li][li]Neither house of Congress is bound by the Federal Rules of Evidence.[/ol][/li]Of these, the only ones I need to refute are reasons based on Rule 803. 803(1) provides an exception for hearsay if the statement presented was a “present sense impression”, made in the moment by the declarant who may or may not be available to testify. This exception still requires a witness with direct knowledge to testify that the declarant made that statement. _Then_ the statement can be used as evidence that what declarant said was _true_. As applied to the white house staffer, admitting their notes into evidence without calling on them to testify requires a witness who observed the staffer making those notes. Even then I’m not sure if that can be used against Mr. Trump, because I’m not sure if a witness under 803(5) can be replaced by a witness-to-a-witness under 803(1). That would be third-hand knowledge. 803(5) applies to recorded recollections, such as notes made soon after listening to the declarant speak. Even if declarant refuses to testify, such notes can be used as evidence that declarant said something, _provided_ that a witness is available to testify that they heard the speech and made an accurate record while speech was fresh in memory, even if the witness cannot recall the speech now. 803(6) applies to records of a regularly conducted activity, such as notes made by white house staffers during a presidential phone call. A custodian, witness, or in certain cases a certificate is still required. 803(8) applies to public records, such as a memorandum released by the White House. To qualify under this exception, the memorandum must be certified (signed off as accurate by an official who normally signs off on such things) or testified to in person. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1217 "2019-09-30T15:13:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > From what I read elsewhere it really isn’t clear who actually has the authority to call the trial to order. Yeah it is pretty clear under Rule VI. VP (Pence) notifies CJOTUS of when the trial is to be held and swears in CJ Roberts. After that CJ Roberts presides and calls them to order (implied by Rule VII). The people thinking McConnell has it in his power to stop the trial (NYT, politico) have never read the Senate Rules on Impeachment and thinks it’s like every other Senate procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1218 "2019-09-30T15:16:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Or how about a murder trial where the victim kept a “I’m being stalked” diary and the murderer kept a “I’m stalking someone” journal. One author is dead and the other might decline to testify as a witness, so neither diary can be used in court? Nope. That was decided recently in a murder conviction based on the Confrontation Clause. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1219 "2019-09-30T15:19:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Sir, your secretary entered, in no fewer than 14 calendar assignments, dates with your mistress.” > “Well, that’s hearsay. I didn’t make the calendar entries!” As applied by way of analogy, the secretary would need to testify or the calendar is hearsay. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1220 "2019-09-30T15:25:23Z")
There is a county in Texas where Beto received a _total_ of six votes. Even in Texas, it has a reputation as being the most conservative county in the State. For the past 25 years it has been served in the House of Representatives by Mac Thornberry, Republican. [Until today.](https://twitter.com/MacTXPress/status/1178684292857237504?s=19) Mac becomes the sixth Texas Republican to “retire”. Given his long years of service, this one isn’t _too_ outside the norm, but still… guess Mac didn’t want to spend his days up to 2020 defending treachery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=62)