# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1341 "2019-10-01T01:16:39Z")
Trump’s campaign strategy and American foreign policy are now one. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1342 "2019-10-01T01:51:16Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [But the Senate doesn’t](https://www.senate.gov/general/Features/votes.htm). > That’s 11 Senators. And did you see the word “must”? That is not the rule for trial upon impeachment. It is the rule for most other matters before the Senate, like bills, nominations, most motions, etc. > [@](#): > > The Presiding Officer shall first state the question; thereafter each Senator, as his name is called, shall rise in his place and answer: guilty or not guilty. No option for voice vote or vote by division. See bottom of page 182. [impeachment | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/background/impeach/senaterules.pdf) ETA: I should clarify that it isn’t you who is wrong on the matter, aside from the nitpicking. **DrDeth** clearly has no idea what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1343 "2019-10-01T02:23:48Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Trump is not owned by hostile foreign powers, I don’t think. They would have had no reason to “own” him before he became president, and would not have been able to buy him once he did. How exactly would that have worked? That’s an extremely naive statement. The Russians (and probably everyone else) have traditionally invested in potential patsies. Kim Philby did not get recruited after he was useful but when he was still in college. Trump, as an influencer with lots of weaknesses to be exploited, would have been high on their list. As for other things, we know that Trump lied about the value of his properties on mortgage applications, which is a crime. He is fighting the release of many documents that might show criminal activity while not saying much about his net worth. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1344 "2019-10-01T02:29:09Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > “trump haters fantasy” is a very strange construction. turnp has equalled or bested anything anyone has projected on him, and we are only in the third quarter of this, say, if we’re lucky. He has no haters. No one is interested in him except that he is our president. Okay then. Well, in my universe Trump does indeed have haters ie. people who hate him. They’ve got good reasons to hate him and some hold dreams of the perfect bad thing that would fuck him over. That’s what I was trying to relate. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1345 "2019-10-01T02:38:53Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > > [@RioRico](#): > > > > Salon: [Donald Trump was impeachable the day he took office…](https://www.salon.com/2019/09/28/donald-trump-was-impeachable-the-day-he-took-office-two-and-a-half-years-later-were-finally-there/) > > From the first day, Donald Trump has been an unhappy president. Because he knew he was engaging in treason. > > I do thank you. I’ve got other links and things I want to get through now,although I did scan this quickly. Please quote some relevant passages if you don’t mind, to the extent that the article shows foreign control over Trump. Here is the first-day part: > [@](#): > > He knew things we didn’t know on that [inauguration] day about what he had done to get elected. He knew about the meeting in Trump Tower held by his own son and son-in-law and campaign manager and several Russians who had come offering “dirt” on his opponent, Hillary Clinton. He knew that people from his own campaign had met with a Russian national and given him polling data from Midwestern states that were being closely contested. He knew that elements of the Russian government were involved in supporting his campaign by placing ads on social media platforms in the very Midwestern states covered by the polling data they had been given. He knew that emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee by Russian intelligence operatives had been released to divert attention from the so-called “Access Hollywood” tape. And he knew that during the transition, the man who would become his national security adviser had met with the Russian ambassador and spoken with him by phone immediately after President Obama had imposed sanctions on Russia for interfering in our elections, assuring him that the Russians had nothing to worry about because Trump would lift the sanctions when he became president. The rest of the article covers known impeachable offenses since taking office; his recent shit looks like treason to me: > [@](#): > > There is a war going on between our ally Ukraine and our enemy Russia, and Donald Trump has taken Russia’s side. Tramp’s UN ambassador and Putin’s defense minister both declared that Russia is waging war on the US. See what the Constitution says about waging war or supporting those who do. Will this be a topic of impeachment proceedings? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1346 "2019-10-01T02:52:19Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > With regards to impeachment, I don’t think private diplomatic communications should be released (without the other state’s permission) to the public until the Congress actually invokes said evidence in an article of impeachment. Even when that happens, only the communications absolutely necessary to support a conviction of “high crimes or misdemeanors” should be made public. “So, Vlad, we’re agreed: I’ll lift all sanctions against you and your supporters, and veto any new sanctions bills, and there’ll be a billion dollars in my Cayman account? Is that the deal?” “Da, Donald.” “And given that this is a private communication between two friendly heads of states, we agree it can only be made public if both of us agree, right?” “Da!” “It’s such a pleasure making deals with you, Vlad!” That’s the standard that has to be met before the American public is entitled to know what their President has been up to on the international stage?? Really? > [@](#): > > I don’t believe the “informing function” of Congress supersedes the President’s foreign policy function until the Congress formally lodges articles of impeachment against the President based on his improper exercise of foreign policy powers. Not even when the Congress has voted $400 million in arms to an allied nation, and the President decides to put a hold on it? Congress has no business being informed of that subversion of their foreign policy goals, unless they start impeachment? Surely there’s some degree of oversight between “Zero” and “impeachment”. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1347 "2019-10-01T02:54:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Okay then. Well, in my universe Trump does indeed have haters ie. people who hate him. They’ve got good reasons to hate him and some hold dreams of the perfect bad thing that would fuck him over. That’s what I was trying to relate. “there are all these trump haters” rhetoric is going to be the very next phase though, I fear, the grievance of the post trump era. hannity says “we are not the hate trump media” with every sign off. It’s a signifier by now of something not good. They are projecting everything back in order to stay off reality. Yes they are projecting projection. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1348 "2019-10-01T03:01:13Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Thanks. Same thing I said earlier though. What is the relevant passage(s) that show a foreign power is controlling/directing/however you want to phrase it, the president now? > **ETA: I could drop this though, since it’s not directly related to the thread. My original post was rather off-the-cuff.** we know it the same way astronomers know there is a black hole somewhere, millions of light years away. It has unimistakeable effects that you can’t deny or explain with any other acceptable intelligent reason. what is a good plausible reason for trump to kowtow to putin in helsinki, and to violate secujrity in the oval office with the russians? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1349 "2019-10-01T03:20:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [But the Senate doesn’t](https://www.senate.gov/general/Features/votes.htm). > That’s 11 Senators. And did you see the word “must”? Did you see nelliebly’s cite above? - The Senate has standing rules governing how impeachment trials are conducted. They do not establish many constraints on what the Senate can consider when sitting as a court… The fact that Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. would preside over that trial does not prevent the Senate from drafting its own bespoke procedures and rules. The Senate’s impeachment rules provide that Roberts’s evidentiary rulings can be subjected to a Senate vote and overturned according to the Senate’s standing rules. Presuming motions to overturn such rulings are handled according to Senate Standing Rule XX governing questions of order, a simple majority of the Senate would be sufficient to overrule the chief justice. In other words, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), not Roberts, would be the de facto presiding officer if he so chooses.\* In other words, they can change those rules anytime they want. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1350 "2019-10-01T03:26:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … > > ETA: I should clarify that it isn’t you who is wrong on the matter, aside from the nitpicking. **DrDeth** clearly has no idea what he’s talking about. I, DrDeth, and not talking about anything. I quoted two experts on the subject. Do _they_ have any idea of what they are talking about? Next, you did see \*\*nelliebly’\*\*s cite above? \*The Senate has standing rules governing how impeachment trials are conducted. They do not establish many constraints on what the Senate can consider when sitting as a court… The fact that Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. would preside over that trial does not prevent the Senate from drafting its own bespoke procedures and rules. The Senate’s impeachment rules provide that Roberts’s evidentiary rulings can be subjected to a Senate vote and overturned according to the Senate’s standing rules. Presuming motions to overturn such rulings are handled according to Senate Standing Rule XX governing questions of order, a simple majority of the Senate would be sufficient to overrule the chief justice. In other words, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), not Roberts, would be the de facto presiding officer if he so chooses.\* ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1351 "2019-10-01T03:36:30Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > we know it the same way astronomers know there is a black hole somewhere, millions of light years away. It has unimistakeable effects that you can’t deny or explain with any other acceptable intelligent reason. > > what is a good plausible reason for trump to kowtow to putin in helsinki, and to violate secujrity in the oval office with the russians? Or to try and get Russia [back in the G7](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/us/politics/trump-russia-g7.html)? Or how about Trump’s National Security Advisor [Michael Flynn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn)? Or how about [easing sanctions](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/house-rebukes-trump-russia-sanctions-1108939) on Russia? Or just taking Putin’s word for anything vs. his own intelligence agencies. This is just a sampling. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1352 "2019-10-01T03:52:01Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Or to try and get Russia [back in the G7](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/us/politics/trump-russia-g7.html)? > > Or how about Trump’s National Security Advisor [Michael Flynn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn)? > > Or how about [easing sanctions](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/house-rebukes-trump-russia-sanctions-1108939) on Russia? > > Or just taking Putin’s word for anything vs. his own intelligence agencies. > > This is just a sampling. How about - withheld military aid to Ukraine I don’t think that any Russians are blackmailing him. It’s just that he’s an idiot with a boy crush on Putin. I bet he talks to Putin way more than we know, and you know Putin manipulates him. Trump just wants Putin to like him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1353 "2019-10-01T04:35:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The whistleblower’s attorney is Andrew Bakaj, who was fired from the CIA for standing up for CIA whistleblowers. After his firing, it was determined by an external review that his firing was retaliation and not a valid firing. Bakaj, unfortunately, has contributed to the Biden campaign. > [News - Heavy.com](https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/andrew-p-bakaj/) How does it matter if whistleblower’s lawyer is partisan? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1354 "2019-10-01T04:56:22Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > How does it matter if whistleblower’s lawyer is partisan? Because the right wing blather is that the whistleblower is a partisan hack. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1355 "2019-10-01T05:03:53Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Because the right wing blather is that the whistleblower is a partisan hack. And what has got to do with the fact that the White House released the text of the call? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1356 "2019-10-01T05:04:35Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I don’t think that any Russians are blackmailing him. It’s just that he’s an idiot with a boy crush on Putin. I bet he talks to Putin way more than we know, and you know Putin manipulates him. > > Trump just wants Putin to like him. I doubt this is reason enough. Trump would never put anyone else’s interests above his own, no matter how much he’s crushing on them. So Trump’s kowtowing to Russia must be serving Trump in some way; either he’s receiving bribes or he’s keeping those hooker photos from being released. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1357 "2019-10-01T05:29:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I doubt this is reason enough. Trump would never put anyone else’s interests above his own, no matter how much he’s crushing on them. > > So Trump’s kowtowing to Russia must be serving Trump in some way; either he’s receiving bribes or he’s keeping those hooker photos from being released. Trump has a penchant for announcing great deals that the other side never really agreed to. It could be that he _thinks_ he’s getting something from Putin but he’s really not. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1358 "2019-10-01T05:51:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And what has got to do with the fact that the White House released the text of the call? Well, from what I’m reading online, the call was never released, and in fact, never even happened. It’s all “hearsay” and is a partisan witch hunt, which will prove to be the Democrats undoing. They actually, honestly believe this. Millions of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1359 "2019-10-01T06:02:13Z")
I see that as more and more bits are coming out that our Trump supporters in this thread seem to have stopped posting. Maybe they’re examining everything that happened and are concluding that maybe, just maybe, the President is not the honest patriot that they thought! ---
**Author:** ![mjmlabs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mjmlabs/32/69_2.png) [@mjmlabs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmlabs)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1360 "2019-10-01T07:18:07Z")
Boy, if I hadn’t been assured that we’re dealing with a Very Stable Genius with a Very Good Brain, I might think we were dealing with a petulant ignoramus who just [publicly admitted to a federal crime](https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/01/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-democrats-rudy-giuliani/index.html): > [@](#): > > Digging himself in deeper, Trump warned Monday he was trying to find out the name of the official who blew the whistle on his call and dealings with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Trump’s comment could be a potential violation of laws meant to protect truth tellers and could play into any eventual charges by Democrats that he is seeking to obstruct their investigation. At a bare minimum, that’s another impeachable offense, be that in Articles of Impeachment related to the current inquiry or, perhaps, in a future round. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=69)