# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1381 "2019-10-01T13:57:01Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I mean… yes, I agree it’s possible that Russia, Saudi Arabia, Emirates, Qatar, Turkey had control over Trump and his business interests for decades – struggling, loan-dependent business interests, which Trump still owns and manages because he refused to divest – and then after he assumed the most powerful office in the world, they all just suddenly decided to stop using that leverage. > > You see how that sounds, right? Sure, but I’m not particularly interested in how something “sounds”. As for agreeing, I didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1382 "2019-10-01T14:04:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Indeed he has, and that would be my point. Not that it proves there’s any sort of blackmail going on, I think it’s clear that he really admires dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un and that may be about the extent of it – just the instinct of the conman and the mobster to stay on the good side of very powerful people, and hope for a _quid pro quo_ of some kind in the future. But man, the way Trump kowtowed to Putin in Helsinki, endorsing everything he said about no election interference and then criticizing his own intelligence agencies – that was something to behold. That seemed pretty treasonous right there. I think the key point is that Trump differs from any other president in that he doesn’t understand any power besides personal power. He thinks that because Putin and Kim don’t have an opposition and free press, they’re more powerful than him. Obama and George W. Bush, and every previous president, both knew that they were more powerful than either of them because America was more powerful that Russia and North Korea, but Trump, who has never been part of anything larger than himself, is incapable of seeing things that way. In many cases - perhaps most cases - being a strong leader means leading a weak country. Strong countries push back. Trump doesn’t care if his country is strong or weak; all he cares is how much power he wields personally ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1383 "2019-10-01T14:07:47Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Roberts might allow McConnell to preside. Nothing in the constitution prohibits it and the constitution will be Roberts’s lodestone. Since impeachment is fundamentally a political process, Roberts might even see the appeal of letting the politicians run it and reach the political result. But understand that, in my humble opinion, Roberts would be choosing to use Senate rules; he would not be bound to use them. Having decided to adhere to the Senate rules. however, he will adhere to them because to do otherwise would call his legitimate institutional role in the process into question and the thing Roberts cares most about in the world is preserving the legitimacy of the court and himself as chief justice. The Chief Justice is explicitly required to preside. The Senate can choose its own rules, but they can’t override the Constitution with them. [ > [@US Constitution](#): > > The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. ]([The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription | National Archives](https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript)) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1384 "2019-10-01T14:11:25Z")
Mitch McConnell says [Saint Cad was right all along](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/30/mitch-mcconnell-senate-must-hold-trial-trump-if-house-impeaches/3820028002/). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1385 "2019-10-01T14:13:20Z")
Worrying about McConnell is pointless. If there are enough Senate votes to convict Trump, there are enough votes to depose Mitch. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1386 "2019-10-01T14:16:26Z")
Why would Mitch attempt to preserve a Trump Presidency when he could have a Romney or Haley? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1387 "2019-10-01T14:17:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I should hope John Roberts shows some respect for the Constitution. I worry that McConnell will say “fuck it, we know we have the votes to kill this. Let’s vote right away so we can get back to doing nothing.” I’d like Roberts to say “fuck you, turtle face. We’re going to conduct a proper trial with evidence and arguments.” Bet you were just as pissed off when Robert Byrd made his motion to dismiss the charges against Clinton, right? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1388 "2019-10-01T14:25:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Bet you were just as pissed off when Robert Byrd made his motion to dismiss the charges against Clinton, right? Again with the false equivalency. You’ve heard this a million times, but here we go with the million-and-first: 1. Blow job 2. Using the foreign policy tools of the US government to force another country (contrary to US interests) to manufacture bullshit for the sole purpose of furthering one’s personal political future. Not the same. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1389 "2019-10-01T14:26:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Bet you were just as pissed off when Robert Byrd made his motion to dismiss the charges against Clinton, right? Again with the false equivalency. You’ve heard this a million times, but here we go with the million-and-first: 1. Blow job 2. Using the foreign policy tools of the US government to force another country (contrary to US interests) to manufacture bullshit for the sole purpose of furthering one’s personal political future. Not the same. But because Republicans are incapable of thinking outside of sports terms (“our team winning or losing”), they keep getting drawn to these false equivalencies. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1390 "2019-10-01T14:33:22Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I worry that McConnell will say “fuck it, we know we have the votes to kill this. Let’s vote right away so we can get back to doing nothing.” I’d like Roberts to say “fuck you, turtle face. We’re going to conduct a proper trial with evidence and arguments.” But is Roberts in a position to prevent McConnell from fast-tracking the process? (Because I definitely wouldn’t put it past the Turtleman to try that tactic) ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1391 "2019-10-01T14:34:57Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This also out today: [here is a video clip of Donald Trump fake-making-out with Rudy Giuliani in drag about 20 or so years ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTFv8Sr08V8) I need to take an eye-bath after watching that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1392 "2019-10-01T14:37:20Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Why would Mitch attempt to preserve a Trump Presidency when he could have a Romney or Haley? Because if Trump goes down, he will take Moscow Mitch down with him. Mitch is in it up to his eyeballs. Mitch does not want to die in prison. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1393 "2019-10-01T14:44:39Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Rational Republican leadership (if such there be) is looking at a Trump Presidency that gets goofier by the moment. He is not a Stable Genius slinging cleverly designed distractions at his opponents. He is an uncontrollable, desperate dullard in a position of extreme power. He is ripping the foundation from under the party elite. The Republicans (and perhaps the country) cannot survive five more years of Trump. If they cared about the party more than their own political futures this would be true, but so far all they see is Trump still keeping firm hold of the GOP base. Until we see some movement there the math is simple: going against Trump = good for country, good for party long term, bad for me short term. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1394 "2019-10-01T14:44:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Mitch McConnell says [Saint Cad was right all along](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/30/mitch-mcconnell-senate-must-hold-trial-trump-if-house-impeaches/3820028002/). > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Not even a subhuman like McConnell would try to subvert a Senate trial after a president has been impeached. What he did as far as Garland does not even merit discussion here. Nomination hearings are a dime a dozen. As we all know, impeachment is as rare as hen’s teeth, and is undeniably one of the most important parts of the constitution. No, even McConnell wouldn’t fuck with that. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > While being a guarantee of nothing, McConnell is saying he would not [screw](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/30/politics/senate-impeachment-plans-mitch-mcconnell/index.html) around with trying to block a Senate trial… Hey, **Saint Cad** , what am I chopped liver? 🙂 I had to practically beg for a comment on this but no one was having it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1395 "2019-10-01T15:10:13Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why I would bother to answer you after bullshit like this, I don’t know. > > Anyway, from your Mueller link: > > Note especially that last sentence. I agree with it. But, I also agree with the first sentence. I’ll ask you the same as others. Quote something from just one of your links that shows Trump is acting at the behest of foreign powers. If Trump does something out of fear that someone has something on him, that’s one thing. If he does it because it has been communicated to him directly, in some way, from a foreign power that he do it or else, that’s another thing entirely. :shrug: Well, I sure do hope they get your address right for that heartfelt letter you evidently actually do need. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1396 "2019-10-01T15:35:25Z")
Mitch is no friend of Trump, and he’s not in danger of prison. Currently the Republicans are regurgitating white house talking points - while behind the scenes they are inventing the epiphany that will be their escape route. We will now be treated to trial propaganda balloons until polls show that the public is taking the bait. Then the Republicans will all latch on to some obscure, previously unknown sin (like he didn’t say grace before meals) and demand removal from office. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1397 "2019-10-01T15:48:24Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > :shrug: Well, I sure do hope they get your address right for that heartfelt letter you evidently actually do need. Do you have evidence to quote, or don’t you? You have numerous links in your post. Just from one or two, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1398 "2019-10-01T16:00:15Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Mitch is no friend of Trump, and he’s not in danger of prison. > > Currently the Republicans are regurgitating white house talking points - while behind the scenes they are inventing the epiphany that will be their escape route. We will now be treated to trial propaganda balloons until polls show that the public is taking the bait. Then the Republicans will all latch on to some obscure, previously unknown sin (like he didn’t say grace before meals) and demand removal from office. It seems realistic enough to suppose that McConnell will turn on Trump the second he stops serving as a viable rubber-stamp who is a continual bomb-throwing distraction, or that supporting Trump would endanger his own political prospects. The trouble is that, short of an election loss, I can’t imagine what circumstance would cause Mitch to connect those dots. I can’t imagine how Graham would do the necessary pirouette… I mean he’s clearly he’s shameless enough to have done it once, but to do it again after having already made that bold flip-flop in the opposite direction? That would be… something. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1399 "2019-10-01T16:02:42Z")
Republicans are in a no-win situation. During the Clinton impeachment, Democrats could say “I think what the president did was wrong but it doesn’t rise to the level of being impeachable”. Republicans can’t say that, if they do they will be primaried by a True Believer Of The One True Patriot. You cannot say he was wrong about anything, ever. So they regurgitate these absurd White House talking points without conviction. Barr, Pence, Pompeo, they’re all in it up to their eyeballs. I hope the book gets thrown at the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1400 "2019-10-01T16:04:21Z")
Back in 1998 there were many questions… interesting questions… about the Clinton/Lewinski affair, some of them personal (how’s it affecting his marriage), some Constitutional, some political. There was contentious fighting on both sides, politicking, “defending the Constitution”, etc. Lots of stuff, **Fiddle Peghead**. Lots of it. But the one topic nobody ever argued, the one fact which both sides agreed upon? Whether or not Bill Clinton’s cock was in that girls mouth. _That_ was pretty much a given. There were no pictures. There were even denials! But no reputable, sober person believed these denials, for why all the hubbub? Arguments demanding a letter or a secret recorded message from Vlad the Imperialist to Trump the Dotard as to establish that Trump takes orders from Putin, and refusing to accept anything else, are as credulous as listening to Bill Clinton say “I never had sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski” and then arguing “naw, he never touched the girl”. Trump does Putin’s bidding. It’s the simplest explanation for most of this bullshit, from the changing of the 2016 RNC platform to soften support of Ukraine\* to literally watching Trump tell Zelensky _last week_ to come to an agreement with Putin. To argue otherwise is comparable to insisting that Bill Clinton’s dick and Monica Lewinski’s mouth were never in close proximity. To insist upon a letter or a phone call\*\* to establish this fact is akin to a Dem saying “PIX OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN” in 1998. \*Remember - the was the only modification demanded by the Trump campaign! \*\* And, really, this is the hill you are wanting to plant this flag on? “I am convinced NO ONE has ordered Trump to do shit and I am also convinced that NO ONE recorded this conversation.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=71)