# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1501 "2019-10-02T02:02:00Z")
Bearing in mind that we’re not to talk about Bill Clinton: for those who may insist that Trump can’t be impeached because only _perjury_ may be used as the basis for articles of impeachment, and Trump has carefully avoided testifying under oath— —you may be living in a fool’s paradise. As it happens the written testimony Trump gave to Mueller is actually considered to have been given under oath. And there appears to be a substantial chance that Trump perjured himself: > [@](#): > > … Lawyers for House lawmakers have suggested they believe President Trump may have lied to former special counsel Robert Mueller about his knowledge of his campaign’s connections to WikiLeaks, according to a court filing obtained by Politico Monday. > > The big picture: The filing forms part of the House Judiciary Committee’s efforts to obtain Mueller’s grand-jury documents, which are currently secret. The House alleges redacted parts of the Mueller report could be detailed by the documents and potentially show that Trump knew of his campaign’s contacts with WikiLeaks. … [https://www.axios.com/mueller-trump-house-records-grandy-jury-ukraine-af8964b1-1f9d-4d93-97c6-03708c96d8c6.html](https://www.axios.com/mueller-trump-house-records-grandy-jury-ukraine-af8964b1-1f9d-4d93-97c6-03708c96d8c6.html) > [@](#): > > … House Democrats allege that Trump may have been lying, based on a section from Mueller’s report based on testimony from former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Manafort said he “recalled” then-candidate Trump requesting to be “updated” about the massive WikiLeaks’ dump of emails from the Democratic National Committee. … > **[House Democrats Say Trump May Have Lied About 2016 WikiLeaks Contact](https://www.newsweek.com/house-democrats-allege-trump-lied-2016-wikileaks-knowledge-1462337)** > > House Democrats argued in new court filings that redacted information from the Mueller report "may also be relevant to the House's investigation of the President's solicitation of Ukrainian interference in the 2020 election." Obtaining access to the grand-jury testimony is key, of course. And now that the House inquiry is officially an impeachment one, that access may well be granted. So impeaching Trump for perjury may become a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1502 "2019-10-02T02:06:34Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > These links should get you started: > > [Deutsche Bank Has Tax Records Congress is Seeking](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/trumps-bank-has-tax-records-congress-is-seeking-in-subpoenas-targeting-the-presidents-finances/2019/08/27/1f2533a4-c8f3-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html) (WaPo) > > [Deutsche Bank, Trump Unlikely to Succeed in Stopping Release of Tax Records](https://www.apnews.com/7e5107a81256421faa0934653f31d855) (AP News) > > [Feds Have until Today to Decide Whether They Will Join Trump’s Fight to Block the State Grand jury Subpoena for Tax Records that was Served on his Longtime Accountant Before Ordering Compliance with the New York State Case](https://www.apnews.com/d2802715cb3b41c3ab15767530465536) (AP News) > > [Bill Barr All In as Trump Personal Fixer, Filed Bullshit Amicus Brief to Prevent Mazars from Releasing Tax Records – Not Likely to Succeed](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/justice-department-mazars-subpoena-trump-barr.html) (Slate) > > I can’t find anything that expressly says Don McGahn has stated he will comply with a court’s order to testify, but I have read that somewhere along the way over these past many months. My reading comprehension isn’t too bad. This appears to be new, today (and not yet posted to this thread): > [@](#): > > The son of a deceased Deutsche Bank executive has helped the FBI with probes related to the bank, The New York Times reported Tuesday. > > Val Broeksmit, the son of senior executive Bill Broeksmit, reportedly had a trove of bank documents and spoke to the law enforcement agency following his father’s suicide. … [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/463843-former-deutsche-bank-executives-son-secretly-helped-fbis](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/463843-former-deutsche-bank-executives-son-secretly-helped-fbis) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1503 "2019-10-02T02:17:01Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Bearing in mind that we’re not to talk about Bill Clinton: for those who may insist that Trump can’t be impeached because only _perjury_ may be used as the basis for articles of impeachment, Uh, what? Why would anyone insist that? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1504 "2019-10-02T02:17:20Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > That was the wrong answer to a rhetorical question. The President and his executive branch would be the only ones that could make that determination, which they did make, when the document was originally classified as Secret. You didn’t ask my opinion on FOIA and having EOs be the basis of national security classification. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1505 "2019-10-02T02:32:33Z")
[Ukrianian nationalists protesting outside the Presidential Office in Kyiv after Zelenskiy announced support for Steinmeier Formula, which would grant Russia-held areas of E Ukraine special self-governing status after local elex held under Ukrainian law are approved by the OSCE.](https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1179116854977208320?s=19) Huh. So, just a week after Trump publicly pressures Zelensky to make a deal with Putin, Putin’s deal is made, a deal which allows Putin to control parts of Ukraine under a puppet government. I mean, guys… stop going to bat for the honor of Donald J Trump. It _always_ goes bad for his defenders. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1506 "2019-10-02T03:04:52Z")
This thread is starting to feel like the pit. Back to the topic at hand: What’s your speculation on why Barr and Trump are so insistent on discrediting the Mueller report? According to Trump–and according to the propaganda that is working really well–Mueller fully exonerated him. I’ve seen in this thread a sentiment that I share–that Mueller dropped the ball. We can debate how handcuffed he was from the get-go or whatever, but I think we’re all a little disappointed in the tiny puff of smoke that wound up being all we got from his report. So why the continuous, apparently criminal attempt to discredit the investigation? My lines of thought are as such: 1, Going off of the CrowdStrike portion of Trump’s call, it stands to reason The Orange Menace is trying to “prove” that the Ukraine was behind the DNC hack, not Russia. I strongly dislike the turn this thread took regarding how much of a puppet your president is or isn’t, but that said, one line of reasoning could be that he was told to do this, part of a tit-for-tat, part of some kompromat, which or whatever, under some pressure from Putin and so on and so forth. Or 2, He is acting out of extreme self interest because he knows how damning the redacted portions of the report are/knows the ramifications of what will happen (given the content of the report) in his future–be it after his presidency or after. Reports are Barr is in Rome right now working on this project. So what are you thoughts? Is it possible that the yet-to-come fallout from the Mueller report will be so damaging to him that he’s made it the current priority of his entire presidency? I reckon there’s a chance Trump’s petty egocentrism is driving this–after all he can’t even let Twitter typos go without fighting like a sick dog with anyone who mentions it. (Remember Covfefe? Instead of just moving on with his life after making a deleted typo, he had to make a giant statement about how he MEANT to type it and the people who matter “will know what he meant.” Imagine being the kind of person who cannot, under any circumstances, accept the notion that you just messed up a tiny, stupid thing). So to that end, perhaps he’s so ate-up by the report that he simply can’t let it go without torching it. I mean he’s still hung up on HRC. What’s he going to do, EXTRA win the 2016 election? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1507 "2019-10-02T04:15:23Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > > [@drad\_dog](#): > > > > …gaslighting…:rolleyes: > > I’m stating my ideas and opinions, not trying to manipulate anyone. What you did manipulate was the quote - the “dubious” emoji was not in the original. Do not alter quotes in the quote box. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1508 "2019-10-02T07:18:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But why would he even want to, with the Oval Office and the chance to get to be his own man beckoning? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think Trump supporters are automatically Pence supporters. Still, a smidgen of self-awareness would force him to acknowledge the reality that the ass-end of the America-hating fuckstick’s one and only term is as close to the Presidency as he’s gonna get. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1509 "2019-10-02T07:32:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I don’t mean to be spamming the thread, but in 1 hour the news has come out: > > 1. Giuliani subpoenaed > 2. Pompeo was on the call > 3. Oh, and the same shit was done with Australia: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/politics/trump-australia-barr-mueller.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/politics/trump-australia-barr-mueller.html) > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > “Spamming”? If this is Spam, fry me up a mess and slather it with mustard! Honey mustard for me, pls. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1510 "2019-10-02T12:01:48Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > What’s your speculation on why Barr and Trump are so insistent on discrediting the Mueller report Rachel Maddow’s theory is that if he can discredit the conclusion that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, then he can lift the sanctions that are based on that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1511 "2019-10-02T12:50:05Z")
A lot of Republicans [surveyed](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463948-poll-just-40-percent-of-republicans-say-trump-mentioned?rnd=1569978848&fbclid=IwAR1UYX0fkHHPqlMQGrRm03K8r-h0RguqLT2tBOZG5CyWzBMJrKfzHT4Ol5w) do not believe that Trump discussed Biden with the Ukrainian president. The call that has a transcript released by the White House. And has been acknowledged repeatedly by Trump. And that nobody denies happened. That call. They don’t believe that it happened. _“Just over 6-in-10 Americans (62%) believe it is likely that Trump mentioned the possibility of an investigation into Biden during his call with Zelenskiy, while 15% say he probably did not do this and 23% are unsure. Among those who have heard a lot about the incident, 76% say this conversation probably occurred, 12% say it probably did not, and 12% are unsure. Among all Democrats, 85% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call, a number that goes up to 97% among Democrats who have heard a lot about it. Among all independents, 61% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call, a number that goes up to 73% among independents who have heard a lot. Among all Republicans, though, just 40% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call. This number goes up only to 50% among Republicans who have heard a lot about the call. Nearly 3-in-10 of all Republicans (29%) as well as the subset of Republicans who have heard a lot about the call (29%) say the investigation into Biden was probably not mentioned by Trump.”_ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1512 "2019-10-02T13:03:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > A lot of Republicans [surveyed](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463948-poll-just-40-percent-of-republicans-say-trump-mentioned?rnd=1569978848&fbclid=IwAR1UYX0fkHHPqlMQGrRm03K8r-h0RguqLT2tBOZG5CyWzBMJrKfzHT4Ol5w) do not believe that Trump discussed Biden with the Ukrainian president. The call that has a transcript released by the White House. And has been acknowledged repeatedly by Trump. And that nobody denies happened. That call. > > They don’t believe that it happened. > > _“Just over 6-in-10 Americans (62%) believe it is likely that Trump mentioned the possibility of an investigation into Biden during his call with Zelenskiy, while 15% say he probably did not do this and 23% are unsure. Among those who have heard a lot about the incident, 76% say this conversation probably occurred, 12% say it probably did not, and 12% are unsure. Among all Democrats, 85% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call, a number that goes up to 97% among Democrats who have heard a lot about it. Among all independents, 61% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call, a number that goes up to 73% among independents who have heard a lot. Among all Republicans, though, just 40% believe that Trump mentioned the investigation during the call. This number goes up only to 50% among Republicans who have heard a lot about the call. Nearly 3-in-10 of all Republicans (29%) as well as the subset of Republicans who have heard a lot about the call (29%) say the investigation into Biden was probably not mentioned by Trump.”_ This is why democracy is doomed. The onset of Fox “News”, Hate Radio, and whack-a-doodle Facebook posts have made some people totally impervious to facts. They believe what the Red Tribe tells them to believe. A certain level of education in the populace is necessary for democracy, the US no longer has it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1513 "2019-10-02T13:25:18Z")
Well, we had a nice run. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1514 "2019-10-02T13:31:03Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > _" Nearly 3-in-10 of all Republicans (29%) as well as the subset of Republicans who have heard a lot about the call (29%) say the investigation into Biden was probably not mentioned by Trump."_ I’m actually surprised these percentages aren’t higher. Irrationality defines your average Trump voter. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1515 "2019-10-02T13:31:54Z")
_Network_ was supposed to be cautionary, not predictive. So was _Idiocracy_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1516 "2019-10-02T13:40:22Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’ve asked for people to point to specific things, NOT just _links_. No apologies. At some point, you have to do your own homework. You asked for the facts of Russia’s control of Trump and were given them. You don’t get to complain that the story is extensive and complex and that you just don’t want to be bothered. Take less time posting complaints and more time reading and you’ll be caught up before you know it. > [@](#): > > I said I was out of this discussion. If anyone would like to discuss specific things as to how Trump is or is not controlled by foreign entities, please start a new thread. I think this thread has had enough of it. The thread is about Trump’s impeachment. The reasons for it \*are \*pretty damn relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1517 "2019-10-02T13:44:53Z")
Not sure why this isn’t bigger news, but Trump also[tried to get Boris Johnson](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/donald-trump-impeachment-president-called-boris-johnson-for-help-to-discredit-mueller-inquiry-jlkztnfpx) to discredit Mueller. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1518 "2019-10-02T13:56:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Thanks for sharing this. I do hope it turns out to be good-interesting and not bad-interesting. > > My personal initial reflexive reaction was like a whipped dog, who didn’t quite grasp that what was being offered was a nice juicy bone, not a club for a smack. Still don’t know which one. I’m about 99% sure that the OLC, which is apparently run by a newly appointed partisan hack, has ginned up some documentation that they think will kill the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1519 "2019-10-02T13:57:31Z")
He’s going to ask every world leader to discredit Mueller and help him find Hillary’s emails. Next thing you know he’ll have a bat signal installed on the White House roof to solicit help from the Caped Crusader. ---
**Author:** ![OsoPolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OsoPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OsoPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1520 "2019-10-02T14:06:53Z")
Conor Friedersdorf had an interesting piece on the Ukraine request and the potential liability for Ivanka, Don Jr., and Eric. > **[If Hunter Biden Is Fair Game, So Are Trump’s Kids](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/trump-children-corruption/599176/)** > > Defenders of Trump would seem to be conceding that a President Kamala Harris could pressure foreign leaders to investigate Don Jr., Eric, and Ivanka Trump for corrupt business dealings. I have to admit that I never thought my ethics were so situational, but if Republicans insist the Ukraine call was “perfect,” I guess I look forward to President Warren using the awesome power of the Federal Government to pressure all our allies to find evidence of money laundering by the Trump Organization. Psssst, they can start looking at the Trump Organization’s Kazakh connections… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=77)