# The Trump Impeachment Inquiry **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771 "2019-09-24T20:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1541 "2019-10-02T17:05:09Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Trump isn’t stupid, but he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is. Worse, he believes he can get through any situation through his own wiles - bluffing, blustering, threatening, lying, skirting the law, violating the law entirely - whatever it takes. > > I have known several people in the business world who suffered from the same hubris. Most of them fail miserably. A couple of them managed to make the money they wanted to make, and retired. Trump made his money, but instead of retiring he decided to a) go for power on a national scale, where his actions are public and b) go up against people with power of their own, some of whom (e.g. Pelosi) know how to use it a lot more skillfully than Trump. I’ll stick with “stupid.” Stupid enough to think he could avoid a shitstorm for 4 to 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1542 "2019-10-02T17:12:30Z")
So now we know that Pompeo was in on the phone call between Trump and Zelinsky. Because Pompeo suddenly admitted it. I wonder if this has anything to do with the new material that is going to be presented to Congresssional Committees by Steve Linick later this afternoon. Things that make me go “hmmmmm”: - Since Pompeo is a witness to the relevant phone call, does this mean we’ll stop hearing the bullshit spin that this whole thing is “Just Hearsay”? - Will Pompeo be allowed to continue to block testimony and intimidate witnesses? And what of Steve Linick’s material? Is it simply that Pompeo was in on the call (which inspired Pompeo to finally admit it), or is there something more? Other calls? Transcript of Trump’s private meeting with Putin? My guess is that it will be more crap that Trump did, and Republicans will continue to deny. Trump will continue to bluster and tweet insane gibberish. It’s quite astounding to me that even after the White House released an official document, which clearly, in black and white, showed that Trump asked Zelinsky for a “favor” to investigate a member of Biden’s family… SIX IN TEN Republicans insists that Trump NEVER MENTIONED BIDEN AT ALL in the phone call. Not just “didn’t pressure Zelinsky”, but DIDN’T MENTION BIDEN AT ALL. It’s like they could look up into a bright, sunny sky at noon, and declare that it is now nighttime, and everything is dark. That is not the sun in the sky. It’s just a liberal plot. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1543 "2019-10-02T17:16:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That stupid and a bit more. Trump is “smart” at scamming and spinning–telling people whatever it takes to get what he wants and to self-promote. Beyond that, he’s extremely mentally lazy, which effectively makes him stupid at being president, a position which he didn’t expect or particularly want to win at first. Once he did become president, all he could do was the same thing he had always done before: put on an act, a front, a performance–a dog-and-pony show: in short, bullshit. Combine all this with pathetic insecurity and narscisism, the awareness that he might be indicted if he loses the election, with total lack of values, and it’s no surprise things have ended up like this. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1544 "2019-10-02T17:18:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …If you, like **Max S.** , start with the presumption that he’s psychologically normal, you’ll only end up bewildered. This is an excellent observation. Trump does not live in the real world. It’s therefore pointless to try to rationalize, or understand what he does. With one exception. If it (in his lopsided view) aggrandizes him, or makes him wealthier, he will try to do it. How successfully it pans out is another thing altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1545 "2019-10-02T17:28:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you, like **Max S.** , start with the presumption that he’s psychologically normal, you’ll only end up bewildered. I’m not bewildered by Mr. Trump’s decision to seek the presidency. I think Michael Moore presented a viable chain of events, or in the alternative, Mr. Trump is clean and really did want to become president. In both scenarios he is a narcissist. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1546 "2019-10-02T17:39:31Z")
He says (not an exact quote) “When Nancy Pelosi saw the transcript, she couldn’t believe it. ‘We can’t impeach him for this’ she said”. Yeah, I’m sure that’s exactly what she said. The transcript is in itself a smoking gun and he acts like it was total exoneration and it was a “perfect” phone call. What the fuck? Has anyone else ever said a phone call was perfect? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1547 "2019-10-02T17:46:38Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I retract . Welcome back FP. Thanks for that. It’s hard to fathom watching trump and not seeing stupid. There is a consensus that he didn’t think he was going to win the election. It was widespread and not just him, remember? So one may run for pres without even considering the ramifications of it, especially a person with trumps psychological profile. “I asked for evidence that Trump is doing the bidding of a hostile foreign power.” And it was given to you. This is a lot of circumstantial evidence to just act like it hasn’t been given. You don’t seem to even acknowledge that it is relevant or exists. What you are actually saying is “I am asking for documentary evidence” but couching it as just simple “evidence” and then dismissing the actual reality of the investigation. If you ask your real question which is is there any documentary evidence, and you read the responses I’m sure they will be informative. Now you may have a problem with this but the law will go on (filling in the circumstantial evidence with documentary when revealed) and your issues don’t relate to the real investigation going on. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1548 "2019-10-02T17:46:49Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > A lot of Republicans [surveyed](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463948-poll-just-40-percent-of-republicans-say-trump-mentioned?rnd=1569978848&fbclid=IwAR1UYX0fkHHPqlMQGrRm03K8r-h0RguqLT2tBOZG5CyWzBMJrKfzHT4Ol5w) do not believe that Trump discussed Biden with the Ukrainian president. The call that has a transcript released by the White House. And has been acknowledged repeatedly by Trump. And that nobody denies happened. That call. > > They don’t believe that it happened. This is not at all surprising. Not everyone is as much of a News Junkie as people on the Dope. Looking at the [raw poll numbers](https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_100119.pdf/) (warning pdf), only about 52% of Republicans have heard “a lot” about the Ukraine Scandal. This is less than Democrats (62%) but more than Independents (47%). The question didn’t ask whether Trump definitely did or did not, but instead whether he “probably” did or did not. So a Trump voter who didn’t know one way or another whether Trump actually had mentioned Biden but thinks that it doesn’t sound like something his guy would do, could answer that Trump probably did not, Add in a knee jerk Conservative/Crazification factor who will answer any poll as whatever makes their party look best (Democrats do this too) and getting only 29% of Republicans saying he probably didn’t mention Biden, is actually pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1549 "2019-10-02T17:50:30Z")
No way of knowing, at the moment, what this means but the State Department Inspector General wants to meet with Congress in a hurry - likely related to their document request on Ukraine: > **[State Department inspector general asks for 'urgent' Capitol Hill briefing](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/state-department-inspector-general-asks-for-urgent-capitol-hill-briefing)** > > The State Department's inspector general requested an "urgent" briefing with congressional staff about documents related to Ukraine after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo slammed a subpoena from House Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1550 "2019-10-02T17:51:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The transcript is in itself a smoking gun and he acts like it was total exoneration and it was a “perfect” phone call. What the fuck? He, and his courtiers and propagandists, spun the Mueller report, which showed the same thing, the same way. Why are you surprised? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1551 "2019-10-02T17:52:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > No way of knowing, at the moment, what this means but the State Department Inspector General wants to meet with Congress in a hurry - likely related to their document request on Ukraine: There’s already been time to load the shredder. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1552 "2019-10-02T18:04:01Z")
“Confirmed: A source familiar tells me the State Department IG briefing on the Hill is about retaliation against State Department officials who are trying to cooperate with House Democrats.” > First rule of holes…? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1553 "2019-10-02T18:08:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The call was “perfect” in the sense that there was no static on the line, it didn’t drop due to a poor connection, nobody missed a crucial statement because the other guy was going through a tunnel, that sort of thing. He had the leader of a country, bend over backwards to kiss his ass, and agree to everything he said and everything he asked for. From his point of view it can’t get any more prefect than that. > [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Impeachment and removal are about removing a corrupt president. > Refusing to hand over evidence is further evidence of corruption. > Refusing to hand over evidence is further evidence of law-breaking. > > Hand-wringing and crying: “OMG Trump & Pals are stonewalling Congress! They will to destroy democracy!” helps Trump because it: > ������creates panic, > ������undermines confidence, and > ������encourages cynicism > which happen to be the same goals of Russian Active Measures. > > Instead . . . > > Instead, we should be saying, “HA! See how guilty they are? Why are they refusing to testify? Why are they hiding evidence? Because they are GUILTY.” > > This will help get public opinion behind impeachment and removal. > > Also, it’s the truth. > > [https://twitter.com/Teri\_Kanefield/status/1179102007396720640](https://twitter.com/Teri_Kanefield/status/1179102007396720640) Or in the words of our [dear leader.](https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-campaign-staff-fifth-amendment-flynn/index.html) > [@](#): > > “You see the mob takes the Fifth,” Trump said during a campaign stop in Iowa late last September. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1554 "2019-10-02T18:12:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > No way of knowing, at the moment, what this means but the State Department Inspector General wants to meet with Congress in a hurry - likely related to their document request on Ukraine: > > [State Department inspector general asks for ‘urgent’ Capitol Hill briefing - Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/state-department-inspector-general-asks-for-urgent-capitol-hill-briefing) Minor nitpick, but he’s meeting with the staffers and not Congress itself. What he intends to do is open to conjecture. Is he planning on bearing documents to give to the staff? Giving them a list of people who would be able to and are willing to provide information and/or testify? This is going so fast that it’s hard to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1555 "2019-10-02T18:16:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > First rule of holes…? See, my first thought was holey shit. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1556 "2019-10-02T18:17:17Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > No way of knowing, at the moment, what this means but the State Department Inspector General wants to meet with Congress in a hurry - likely related to their document request on Ukraine: > > [State Department inspector general asks for ‘urgent’ Capitol Hill briefing - Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/state-department-inspector-general-asks-for-urgent-capitol-hill-briefing) And the Trump rage tweeting, accusing him of being a traitor and a spy will begin in 3…2…1… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1557 "2019-10-02T18:20:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He, and his courtiers and propagandists, spun the Mueller report, which showed the same thing, the same way. Why are you surprised? It was a bit easier to spin a document that nobody read than to refute the clear language in the transcript. Either he’s stupid enough not to recognize that it’s very damning evidence or he thinks we’re all stupid enough to take his word that it proves he’s innocent. It’s like “They say I robbed a bank? Here’s a picture of me holding a gun to a teller’s head. Fake news!” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1558 "2019-10-02T18:58:41Z")
[“Shields and Brooks on the politics of impeachment.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kPVNUlXqJ4) That Trump’s phone call to Ukraine is clearly criminal is not in dispute, but beginning at 5:30 they discuss whether impeachment is a mistake. David Brooks (R) thinks so — it’s the fight Trump wants, it will distract from Democratic debate on the issues, and the Senate will never convict. Mark Shields (D) applauds Pelosi’s statesmanship over two decades, thinks impeachment is a moral necessity and, unlike Brooks(R), thinks the Republicans may not be “irredeemable” — as though twenty R Senators might admit that their leader is a criminal. Shields obviously has the moral high ground, but I’m afraid Brooks is right. Amusing that the Democrat commentator thinks twenty Republican Senators just _might_ put the country and the rule of law ahead of politics, while the Republican commentator is certain they won’t! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1559 "2019-10-02T18:59:36Z")
turnp thinks that his words may be given meaning by him, and only by him, even after a conversation has occurred and it’s in the past. If someone attributes meaning to his words and he doesn’t like it or it reveals unwanted parts of himself, it’s very clear he is convinced he may change or interpret his own words in any way he wants. He has to believe that’s real or why would he do it in public filmed situations? ---
**Author:** ![Elusive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@Elusive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elusive)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/1560 "2019-10-02T19:21:48Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > If someone attributes meaning to his words and he doesn’t like it or it reveals unwanted parts of himself, it’s very clear he is convinced he may change or interpret his own words in any way he wants. He has to believe that’s real or why would he do it in public filmed situations? It seemed to me that his responses to the question posed to him about Biden, during this latest press conference with the president of Finland, lend quite a bit of credence to that notion. He refused to address the “investigate the junior Biden for me” part of the call, and if anyone a) didn’t read the memo themselves, and b) were at all inclined to believe anything he said, they might actually believe the whole thing was a non-event. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771.md?page=79)