# The Trump Impeachment Trial
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [January 16, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524 "2020-01-16T20:12:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 15
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/281 "2020-01-24T19:21:46Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#):
>
> Sorry. I meant removed from office.
**squeegee** already knew that. Welcome to the Dope.
It takes 67 votes, but there will only be 49 or so.
Are the sportsbooks making odds? Romney and Murkowski are likely to show integrity, I’d guess. Any others?
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/282 "2020-01-24T19:28:42Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#):
>
> And just to add this part of that comment from Graham: “They are over trying their case,”
>
> While I don’t necessarily disagree with this comment, surely he knows that the Democrats know there is no chance that Trump won’t be acquitted (and of course he does, and we all know that) and must realize that said Democrats are trying to produce as many sound bites as possible to use in political ads. Which to my mind is the the best they can hope for. And I hope that doesn’t sound pessimistic. I believe they could be quite effective, and even more so if Trump’s team provides additional fodder for those ads.
There is also the view that they are bringing reality, that they are behaving in a righteous manner, regardless of the fronting and fixing the other side wants to engage in.
These things are only a done deal to losers, not that you are one. But generally speaking, the “done deal” is a republican spin on this, because they want to hide in the shadows. “Done deal” is their deepest fantasy. Screw them and their fucking wet dreams.
The republicans are choosing to burn their party in public and for history with gaslighting and lies, fear and threats. “Done deal” would imply that there is no cost or reckoning, and that the dems are just acting quixotically and without meaning for the country. I don’t think so.
All the documents in this administration will be public in not too long. The “secrecy” of this moment is a bubble that will burst. What do the public performances of rebupkis look like then, maybe a few months from now?
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/283 "2020-01-24T19:33:01Z")
NETA: I deliberately omitted Susan Collins from the tiny list of GOP Senators who might show integrity and — coincidence! — clicked to Google News to find that [the Hypocrite from Maine has just confirmed that she no longer even pretends to be a fan of Truth, Justice, or America.](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/479636-susan-collins-asked-justice-roberts-to-intervene-after-after-nadler-late) She’s just a contemptible bag of pure partisanship like the rest of her ilk.
Almost the entire GOP is beyond redemption.
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### Author:  [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/284 "2020-01-24T19:53:39Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> Are the sportsbooks making odds? Romney and Murkowski are likely to show integrity, I’d guess. Any others?
[PredictIt impeachment markets.](https://www.predictit.org/markets/search?query=impeachment)
Romney convict at $0.15. Murkowski convict at $0.24.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/285 "2020-01-24T20:18:32Z")
Holy Schiff. This is amazing. Going to find a recording of Schiff’s current remarks and play them on the way home.
“That’s one hell of a Russian intelligence coup: They got the President of the United States to cover for their own interference in our election. I would submit to you that in the entire length of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had no such success.”
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/286 "2020-01-24T20:21:43Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> NETA: I deliberately omitted Susan Collins from the tiny list of GOP Senators who might show integrity and — coincidence! — clicked to Google News to find that [the Hypocrite from Maine has just confirmed that she no longer even pretends to be a fan of Truth, Justice, or America.](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/479636-susan-collins-asked-justice-roberts-to-intervene-after-after-nadler-late) She’s just a contemptible bag of pure partisanship like the rest of her ilk.
>
> Almost the entire GOP is beyond redemption.
The rules of the Senate ban rudeness (apparently).
If she’s a stickler for the rules, that’s to the favor of people who want the law to win.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/287 "2020-01-24T20:46:01Z")
I too enjoy inviting people that I don’t know over to dinner and order those strangers to fire my employees.
> **[ABC: Recording apparently captures Trump discussing Yovanovitch ouster with...](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/479787-abc-recording-apparently-captures-trump-discussing-yovanovitch-ouster/)**
>
> Newly surfaced audio appears to capture President Trump telling associates he wanted then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired during a private April 2018 dinner, ABC News reported Fr…
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/288 "2020-01-24T20:59:05Z")
I’d do it more often but I keep running out of employees!
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### Author:  [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/289 "2020-01-24T20:59:25Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#):
>
> There is also the view that they are bringing reality, that they are behaving in a righteous manner, regardless of the fronting and fixing the other side wants to engage in.
Well, yes, they are undoubtedly doing that, but I just meant in terms of what they can gain/use from the trial going forward until the election.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/290 "2020-01-24T21:13:17Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> I too enjoy inviting people that I don’t know over to dinner and order those strangers to fire my employees.
>
> [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/479787-abc-recording-apparently-captures-trump-discussing-yovanovitch-ouster](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/479787-abc-recording-apparently-captures-trump-discussing-yovanovitch-ouster)
Trump has known Lev Parnas for many years. So he was hardly imposing on a stranger to do his dirty work.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/291 "2020-01-24T21:22:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> Trump has known Lev Parnas for many years. So he was hardly imposing on a stranger to do his dirty work.
I suspect that Sage Rat’s use of “stranger” there was meant ironically. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/292 "2020-01-24T22:00:08Z")
Apologies if this has already been posted. Trump was apparently caught on tape saying this, in reference to Ambassador Yovanovitch:
> [@Donald Trump](#):
>
> “Get rid of her!” a voice appearing to belong to Trump says on the recording, according to ABC News, which on Friday first reported its existence.
> “Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it.”
[https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/politics/trump-phone-call-ukraine-ambassador/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/politics/trump-phone-call-ukraine-ambassador/index.html)
I have to say I’m only like 85% sure he was using the phrase “take her out” as a figure of speech meaning “fire her”.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/293 "2020-01-24T22:07:42Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#):
>
> Well, yes, they are undoubtedly doing that, but I just meant in terms of what they can gain/use from the trial going forward until the election.
The rest of my answer did address that.
Any savvy dem is not looking to the removal of dt as the goal right now. It’s about the damage to the rebupkis. Removal may be impossible, but the opposition party is melting down intellectually, and ethically. Why should that not inform the dems agenda?
Last I looked it was two opposiong parties. If one of them is lame and failing in their jobs and flailing about in public, and they are my opposition, I’m looking for the death of that party. I hope that doesn’t sound cruel. I don’t mean to hurt Susan Collins feelings but we have to move on, preferably in a democracy.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/294 "2020-01-24T22:09:25Z")
I’m 99% sure that a man who was saying “take her out” to a gang of mobsters, to people who… at that table… could not possibly execute the President’s orders through the system of government… did not mean “fire her”.
“A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering **that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman** – two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.”
> **['Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437)**
>
> President Donald Trump was apparently heard discussing firing Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch during a 2018 dinner,.
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### Author:  [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/295 "2020-01-24T22:16:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> I’m 99% sure that a man who was saying “take her out” to a gang of mobsters, to people who… at that table… could not possibly execute the President’s orders through the system of government… did not mean “fire her”.
>
> “A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering **that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman** – two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.”
>
> ['Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437)
Yeah, I posted before I bothered to get the whole context. I’m pretty much with you now. And Parnas was in contact with that guy who claimed to have a connection in her security detail. And she was hastily recalled “for her safety”.
So. Yeah. He wanted her killed.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/296 "2020-01-24T22:23:54Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> Roberts has listened (on the 21st) to members of Trump’s defense team speaking outright lies.
>
> [https://www.thenation.com/article/cipollone-impeachment-lies/](https://www.thenation.com/article/cipollone-impeachment-lies/)
>
> In addition to the blatant lying, Roberts is also witnessing the Senators’ contempt for the ‘stay silent’ instructions read out by the Sergeant at Arms each day. (They may not be gabbing in the chamber, but they’re gabbing plenty outside, including giving FoxNews interviews.) Plus he gets to watch them get up and leave, or if seated, play with fidget spinners or work crossword puzzles.
>
> So I’m guessing that Roberts is not so much bored, as he is disgusted. Imagine anyone conducting themselves this way in a Supreme Court oral-argument session!
Fuck him. I hope he’s finally realizing that he is now, and always has been, nothing more than a tool for these horrible people to help them get their way. I hope he sees the lie that his life has been, and how he’s been, and still is, completely complicit with everything that is happening. I hope he sees himself as part of the problem; if he does, there’s still hope for him.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/297 "2020-01-24T22:25:15Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#):
>
> Yeah, I posted before I bothered to get the whole context. I’m pretty much with you now. And Parnas was in contact with that guy who claimed to have a connection in her security detail. And she was hastily recalled “for her safety”.
>
> So. Yeah. He wanted her killed.
At _best_ it has “Won’t no one rid me of this turbulent priest” feel, doesn’t it?
(Shout out to kaylasdad99 who yelled at all of us once for getting the quote wrong. Sheesh! Ya happy? 😛 )
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### Author:  [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/298 "2020-01-24T23:06:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> I’m 99% sure that a man who was saying “take her out” to a gang of mobsters, to people who… at that table… could not possibly execute the President’s orders through the system of government… did not mean “fire her”.
>
> “A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering **that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman** – two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.”
>
> ['Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/recording-appears-capture-trump-private-dinner-ukraine-ambassador/story?id=68506437)
“Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018…”
That’s a full year before she was actually removed. Am I mistaken in the timing of the scheme starting in early 2019? Or did it go back even further?
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/299 "2020-01-24T23:19:26Z")
Yes. And it definitely indicates it wasn’t Trump who was convincing Parnas why Y. had to be removed… _Parnas_ was convincing _Trump_.
Now why… and for whom… would Parnish want such a thing?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2020, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/300 "2020-01-25T01:24:59Z")
With all these Republican Senators wandering about, doing crossword puzzles, marathon eyeball rolling…see any of them taking notes? Paying attention to a point they might like to sternly rebut?
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