# The Trump Impeachment Trial
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [January 16, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524 "2020-01-16T20:12:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 19
### Author:  [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/361 "2020-01-27T14:28:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Roberts will never insert himself into struggle between Republicans and Democrats. He is a ceremonial figurehead at best.
NY Times editorial [disagrees](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/opinion/john-roberts-impeachment-witnesses.html).
_The rules further empower the chief justice to enforce the subpoena rule. Rule V says: “The presiding officer shall have power to make and issue, by himself or by the Secretary of the Senate, all orders, mandates, writs, and precepts authorized by these rules, or by the Senate, and to make and enforce such other regulations and orders in the premises as the Senate may authorize or provide.” The presiding officer, under our Constitution, is the chief justice. As such, the chief justice, as presiding officer, has the “power to make and issue, by himself,” subpoenas._
\*
“If there were any doubt, recall the language of the Constitution, which orders that, in an impeachment trial of the president, “the Chief Justice shall preside.” To “preside” is not a merely symbolic role; it can mean, just as it meant during President Andrew Johnson’s impeachment trial, to be asked to make a range of actual rulings, including ones on which the chief justice is not merely the first word but also the last.”\*
And maybe the funniest part of this, buried toward the end:
_“There’s icing on this cake. The special rules for Mr. Trump’s impeachment trial drafted by the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, establish certain obstacles for witness testimony, requiring a deposition first and only then a Senate vote on whether to allow the witness to testify. But those rules apply only to a particular category of witnesses — those called “if the Senate agrees” to them. They manifestly don’t apply when it’s the chief justice who orders witnesses to appear.”_
---
### Author:  [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/362 "2020-01-27T14:37:06Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> GOP will just say Bolton is a liar , stupid, hates Trump because he was fired, etc. Won’t matter what he says.
There may still be a few people who takes oaths and perjury seriously.
Note that Trump’s accusers primarily did so under oath, while none of his supporters have done so.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/363 "2020-01-27T14:52:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> They won’t get 4 , maybe they get Romney.
Ha! Romney doesn’t have the guts to be out there by himself.
If 4 other Senators vote to allow witnesses or new documents or whatever (like that’s gonna happen - consider this just a hypothetical!), Romney might be the unnecessary fifth vote.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/364 "2020-01-27T14:54:20Z")
The White House knew what was in the book, they got a copy. Did they advise the GOP Senators they were counting on to fall upon their swords, if required? And if this is a surprise, how pissed off are they?
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### Author:  [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/365 "2020-01-27T14:55:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> The White House knew what was in the book, they got a copy. Did they advise the GOP Senators they were counting on to fall upon their swords, if required? And if this is a surprise, how pissed off are they?
For what it’s worth, the [NSC says the White House didn’t see it](https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1221805273079255040).
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/366 "2020-01-27T16:24:29Z")
Senate Republicans:
“The impeachment case lacks eyewitnesses. There is nothing new here!”
Also Senate Republicans:
“No, we refuse to listen to any eyewitnesses, and will ignore what Bolton says”
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/367 "2020-01-27T16:26:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#):
>
> There may still be a few people who takes oaths and perjury seriously.
>
> Note that Trump’s accusers primarily did so under oath, while none of his supporters have done so.
No.
The GOP senators know that their supporters EXPECT them to lie and cover up for Trump. If they dare tell the truth, their voters will abandon them.
The lies and coverup are part of the job description if you are a Republican Senator.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/368 "2020-01-27T16:55:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> Roberts possesses the brain power necessary to noticing that an impeachment trial is, by definition, political…
Yes, which is why he is going to do his best to stay out of it. He is constitutionally obligated to attend, but beyond that he will try not to interfere any any way. Basically, he will match [Renquist’s](https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/at-impeachment-trial-chief-justice-roberts-will-do-just-what-rehnquist-did-nothing-in-particular/)model in the Clinton impeachment who said “I did nothing in particular and did it very well.”
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/369 "2020-01-27T16:59:10Z")
Quite the pickle, isn’t it? Can a Republican Senator win with only Trump’s base, alone? Difficult, in the saner parts of the country. Can he/she/it win _without_ that base? Difficult to impossible. Slim chance with Trump, none without him. Gee, what a shame.
But if you’re gonna bail out, it has to be soon, because these votes are going to establish who…or what…you are. And nationwide, polls say a bare majority want him gone. Any chance that number will get better for him, after his nationwide Gloat-a-palooza?
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### Author:  [@mundylion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mundylion)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/370 "2020-01-27T17:01:25Z")
Many want to hear from Bolton because they think he will corroborate the fact that Trump withheld funds on purpose, to prod Ukraine to investigate Biden. But everyone knows that Trump did that. The Republicans know that but simply don’t think that that is an impeachable offense. End of story.
Move on.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/371 "2020-01-27T17:25:40Z")
> [@mundylion](#):
>
> Many want to hear from Bolton because they think he will corroborate the fact that Trump withheld funds on purpose, to prod Ukraine to investigate Biden. But everyone knows that Trump did that. The Republicans know that but simply don’t think that that is an impeachable offense. End of story.
>
> Move on.
I want to for different reasons.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/372 "2020-01-27T17:25:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> As I recall, several countries, not just Biden and the US, were pushing for ousting that prosecutor for failing to go after corruption. But in the Bizarro world that is the Republican Party, Biden alone arranged for the ouster in order to stop investigation of him and his son.
My SO was on the phone with her half-sister last night; she and her hubby are Trumpeteers but have shown signs of shifting left. They still have quite a way to go: hubby is somehow under the impression that Joe Biden was not only in a position to control foreign aid but _he threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine until Shokin got fired._
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/373 "2020-01-27T17:48:35Z")
Sorta kinda, if you squint. The EU was big on anti-corruption in Ukraine. They wanted to do business in a sensible fashion, for starters, and access to Ukraine energy resources without Putin’s thumb in their eye. Biden was a public figurehead on board to enhance their standing, but he had no foreign policy authority.
The EU was unanimous in its dismal opinion of Shokin, and Biden reflected that position. But he was pretty much a dignified spokesman.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/374 "2020-01-27T18:01:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Any chance that number will get better for him, after his nationwide Gloat-a-palooza?
Yes, a great chance.
You would probably be shocked at how many Americans love an authoritative bully and gloater. To a great many Americans, that’s what leadership looks like.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/375 "2020-01-27T18:03:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Sorta kinda, if you squint. The EU was big on anti-corruption in Ukraine. They wanted to do business in a sensible fashion, for starters, and access to Ukraine energy resources without Putin’s thumb in their eye. Biden was a public figurehead on board to enhance their standing, but he had no foreign policy authority.
>
> The EU was unanimous in its dismal opinion of Shokin, and Biden reflected that position. But he was pretty much a dignified spokesman.
And Shokin was NOT investigating Burisma, due to Shokin’s own corruption.
> **[Viktor Shokin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin#Failure_to_properly_investigate_Burisma_Holdings)**
>
> Viktor Mykolayovych Shokin (Ukrainian: Віктор Миколайович Шокін; born 4 November 1952) is a former Prosecutor General of Ukraine. Having previously worked as an investigator for the Prosecutor General Office, he served as Prosecutor General for one year between 2015 and 2016.
> Amid domestic and international pressure, he was removed from office by the Ukrainian Parliament in March 2016, a move welcomed by the European Union, the United States, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank...
To repeat this which has been stated a dozen times already in this thread: Joe Biden threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine and in doing so made an investigation into Burisma MORE likely.
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### Author:  [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/376 "2020-01-27T18:35:36Z")
To Does watching the trial:
What is Starr trying to make a point about? I’m paying close attention to what he says, but his rambling stories don’t seem to have any common thread, and he’s not referring back to any premise, nor did he seem to establish one when he stared speaking.
He’s against special council? There was never one appointed in this matter. Help.
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### Author:  [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/377 "2020-01-27T18:47:38Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#):
>
> To Does watching the trial:
>
> What is Starr trying to make a point about? I’m paying close attention to what he says, but his rambling stories don’t seem to have any common thread, and he’s not referring back to any premise, nor did he seem to establish one when he stared speaking.
>
> He’s against special council? There was never one appointed in this matter. Help.
I’m watching Starr right now and I don’t understand what point he is trying to make, either. He’s rambling on with a sort of history lesson (that leaves out important facts), but where is he going with this? What does Andrew Johnson have to do with this? Starr mentions that Johnson was acquitted, but he fails to point out that he was acquitted by one vote that was almost certainly bought by Democrats. Johnson cheated to win.
Still no mention of what Trump is actually accused of doing. Odd that.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/378 "2020-01-27T18:59:55Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#):
>
> To Does watching the trial:
>
> What is Starr trying to make a point about? I’m paying close attention to what he says, but his rambling stories don’t seem to have any common thread, and he’s not referring back to any premise, nor did he seem to establish one when he stared speaking.
>
> He’s against special council? There was never one appointed in this matter. Help.
It’s easy to miss the context here: Lindsey Graham was on Maria Bartiromo last night and assured the world that the entire case was demolished in the two hours on Saturday. And he said it in seven seconds. Let’s see any democrat beat that.
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### Author:  [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/379 "2020-01-27T19:06:58Z")
Have we really reached the part of this ridiculous timeline where I’m getting a lecture on the overuse of impeachment from Kenneth Starr?
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### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/380 "2020-01-27T19:12:05Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#):
>
> Have we really reached the part of this ridiculous timeline where I’m getting a lecture on the overuse of impeachment from Kenneth Starr?
When you consider that their entire strategy is gaslighting, it makes perfect sense.
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