# The Trump Impeachment Trial
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [January 16, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524 "2020-01-16T20:12:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/81 "2020-01-21T07:24:36Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> summarize the document
I read only a small portion.
That said, I’m comfortable to claim from the chapter headers that those remaining parts wouldn’t stand Constitutional scrutiny.
[This](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=888632) is contentious. What they’re trying to argue is not contentious - basically that Congress has no power of oversight, that the President can do anything he wants, that the President isn’t being accused of impeachable offenses, and _impeachment is unconstitutional_ - and that’s unmitigated nonsense.
Granted, the second one [isn’t complete complete nonsense](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22091855&postcount=12), but given the silliness of most of their Constitutional arguments which I have seen to date, I’m going to pan their version on simple style points, sight unseen.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/82 "2020-01-21T07:27:36Z")
Oh yes and, further, on the first argument:
> **[Impeachment witness David Holmes explains how he overheard Sondland call with...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/impeachment-witness-explains-how-he-overheard-trump-call-with-sondland.html)**
>
> Holmes overheard Trump ask Sondland in a July 26 call about whether Ukraine's president would commit to an investigation, which Holmes understood to be about the Bidens.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/83 "2020-01-21T10:59:10Z")
The estimable Mr. Josh Marshall makes these points over at his pop-stand, _Talking Points Memo_
[https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/no-begging-or-pleading-its-senate-republicans-who-are-on-trial](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/no-begging-or-pleading-its-senate-republicans-who-are-on-trial)
A worthy read.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/84 "2020-01-21T12:41:52Z")
this will be like the OJ trial except shorter and we know the outcome. On second thought we thought we knew the outcome of the OJ trial but we were wrong.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/85 "2020-01-21T13:13:59Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#):
>
> On the one hand, they are ostensibly the jury, and should not be making up their minds or discussing the case while the trial is in progress.
There’s the theory that the Senate is something akin to a trial jury, and there’s another theory that the Senate is there to provide a political trial with Senators representing the will of their constituents.
Many Republicans have already publicly declared that they have zero intention of serving as unbiased jurors, that they are acting purely in a political capacity. If that’s the case then none of these jury-tainting arguments matter. They should be declaring their intent on TV, we should be feeding back our opinions to them, we should watch the proceedings on TV to be held accountable for what we’ve asked them to do.
Can’t have it both ways. You’re either bound by the rules and protections of an impartial juror, or else you owe us full transparency and accountability for whatever political exercise you intend to conduct.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/86 "2020-01-21T13:22:39Z")
Not sure why Trump is hiring big name high dollar lawyers. He could choose random lawyers from all across the US and the outcome would be the same. Or random people who are not lawyers
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### Author:  [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/87 "2020-01-21T13:52:24Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> this will be like the OJ trial except shorter and we know the outcome. On second thought we thought we knew the outcome of the OJ trial but we were wrong.
The term “jury nullification” comes to mind.
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### Author:  [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/88 "2020-01-21T13:53:08Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> Not sure why Trump is hiring big name high dollar lawyers. He could choose random lawyers from all across the US and the outcome would be the same. Or random people who are not lawyers
Because they need to put on a good show that will allow the Trump Party to have their fig leaf for the voters.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/89 "2020-01-21T13:56:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> The estimable Mr. Josh Marshall makes these points over at his pop-stand, _Talking Points Memo_
>
> [No Begging Or Pleading — It’s Senate Republicans Who Are On Trial - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/no-begging-or-pleading-its-senate-republicans-who-are-on-trial)
>
> A worthy read.
I fully agree with Josh. Trump is going to be acquitted, so the real object of this proceeding, from the Dems’ POV, should be to put the GOP Senators on trial in the court of public opinion.
For those GOP Senators who are up for re-election (or up for _election_, in McSally’s case) this fall who might be vulnerable, make sure their constituents know how crazy Mitch’s rules are, and that they voted for them; make sure their constituents know that they voted against allowing witnesses; make sure their constituents know that they repeatedly voted to turn the presiding Chief Justice into a figurehead and a puppet of Mitch McConnell.
And make sure their constituents know **now** that that’s how they’re likely to roll, so they can see it happening in real time.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/90 "2020-01-21T14:44:00Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> Not sure why Trump is hiring big name high dollar lawyers. He could choose random lawyers from all across the US and the outcome would be the same. Or random people who are not lawyers
Do you honestly think they’re going to get paid? They know he’s a deadbeat who will stiff them but they want to play on the big stage so they work for free. Yeah, we know the outcome is preordained so Ernest T Bass could present the case and still win.
I’ve moved from having the faintest hope of acquittal to hoping the stench of the “trial” moves the needle on some of the close Senate races so that next year at this time Chuck Schumer is Majority Leader.
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### Author:  [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/91 "2020-01-21T16:13:49Z")
since the trial is a joke I assume Comedy Central is also showing it? Might be funnier than most of their shows that are not South Park.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/92 "2020-01-21T17:49:18Z")
>
Rudy Colludy admits that not only does he know Parnas, he’s _Godfather to Parnas’s kid_.
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### Author:  [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/93 "2020-01-21T18:27:43Z")
McConnell: We’re going to read out my rules, then debate then for two hours. Schumer will offer amendments, then we’ll debate them for two hours. Then we’ll take a break.
Then we’ll hold a vote to ignore Schumer.
Paraphrased. He didn’t say wil hold a vote on the resolutions Schumer offers. He said well vote to table any resolutions Schumer offers.
This is going to be painful.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/94 "2020-01-21T18:37:32Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> Not sure why Trump is hiring big name high dollar lawyers. He could choose random lawyers from all across the US and the outcome would be the same. Or random people who are not lawyers
They are the fox crew. tv personalities never go away or lose. donnie is in fantasy land and thinks that dershowitz can’t be dislodged from his intellectual perch (because it never happens on tv) and so he will be safe. He is basing his defense on how he feels after a good fox hit by one of his supporters, so his defense will have to be put on by those supporters.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/95 "2020-01-21T19:15:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> I fully agree with Josh. Trump is going to be acquitted, so the real object of this proceeding, from the Dems’ POV, should be to put the GOP Senators on trial in the court of public opinion.
[Son of a gun! 😃](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/live-blog/liveblog-impeachment-trial-begins-in-the-senate)
> [@](#):
>
> In their scathing responses to McConnell’s restrictive proposed trial rules, Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) fired a warning shot at politically vulnerable GOP senators who would potentially vote for McConnell’s efforts to tailor the trial in Trump’s favor.
>
> “Any senator that votes for the McConnell resolution will be voting to hide information and evidence from the American people,” Schumer said.
>
> And Pelosi threatened that “every Senator who supports this sham process must be held accountable to the American people.”
Game on!
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### Author:  [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/96 "2020-01-21T19:26:58Z")
Schiff is making an elaborate logical argument for witnesses and documents. But, his argument is not the issue. The only issue is what action will ensure that first the Senate and second the Presidency remain under Republican control after 2020. Unless Trump is an asset in achieving those goals, he needs to be removed. This is the last chance for the Republicans to take control, dump Trump and blame the Dems.
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/97 "2020-01-21T19:31:06Z")
My local ABC news just interrupted the coverage for local news. I sent them a message on Facebook and asked them if they were just trying to cover up Trump’s crimes so we can’t see what is happening, and they assured me, Oh, I can watch it on their website. So I switched over to NBC.
I noticed that NBC is labeling Individual 1’s lawyers as White House defense. No, they are Individual 1’s defense, they don’t work for the White House.
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### Author:  [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/98 "2020-01-21T19:52:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#):
>
> My local ABC news just interrupted the coverage for local news. I sent them a message on Facebook and asked them if they were just trying to cover up Trump’s crimes so we can’t see what is happening, and they assured me, Oh, I can watch it on their website. So I switched over to NBC.
>
> I noticed that NBC is labeling Individual 1’s lawyers as White House defense. No, they are Individual 1’s defense, they don’t work for the White House.
One of them does. Pat Cipillone, White House lawyer. The same lawyer that several administration officials went to in order to voice their concerns about the Ukraine matter. He told then he’d look into it and told then not to talk about it.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/99 "2020-01-21T20:45:32Z")
Previously quoted:
Any senator that votes for the McConnell resolution will be voting to hide information and evidence from the American people,” Schumer said.
And Pelosi threatened that “every Senator who supports this sham process must be held accountable to the American people.”
Like they give a damn.
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### Author:  [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-trial/846524/100 "2020-01-21T21:55:32Z")
They voted down the first amendment to call for documents and witnesses before they finish presenting arguments on a straight party line with no defectors.
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