The Trump Impeachment Trial

No, because people actually do care already about extorting foreign officials for personal gain and Trump made it ridiculously easy to make that case. The Democrats can’t decide what the Republican-controlled Senate does. All they can do is make it as politically painful as possible for any Republican who doesn’t vote to convict Trump, which has the outside chance of convincing enough Republicans to convict, or more likely just hurts Trump and the Republicans with their own refusal to take this seriously. This works better if you hammer the focus home on the actual abuse and refuse to get bogged down in minutia.

And this is a particular case where we don’t have time to educate the American public on why all the complicated stuff is important, because all of this is going to come home to roost in the 2020 election.

The Senate cares a lot more about maintaining the power of the Senate than they do about whether their guy in the White House cheats or honestly re-attains his seat.

There’s also the issue that the House gave them a few months to prepare defenses for the Ukraine thing, and get the people inoculated to it.

A new illness is more easy to spread than the one we’ve all become resistant to.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at here, but I’m guessing the idea is to emphasize to the GOP that if you don’t use impeachment as a consequence for defying congressional subpoenas, you’re ceding congressional power, including senate power, to the executive branch. I guess it’s a potential argument, but the GOP had telegraphed so strongly that they weren’t going to convict, and they’ve already been quite happy to give up power to Trump in cases like the state of emergency. This was always going to come down to the voting public, and the voting public unfortunately doesn’t care about obstruction.

This I do agree with, which is why I think generally the fact that the house moved close to as quickly as IMO you could reasonably expect is a good thing. They probably could have tightened somethings up as far as timing, and Pelosi didn’t need to hang on to the articles, so there’s definitely room to second guess on those points.

Oh, I totally disagree. Republicans of the Senate have one priority, getting re-elected in the party of Trump is pretty much the only priority. Republicans have had ample opportunities to stand of up their institution and chosen to defer to the President on every occasion.

Former US prosecutor Glenn Kirschner is urging Adam Schiff to ask Chief Justice Roberts to ask for a mistrial:

This idea appears to be new, today. I’ve been looking for opinions and views from experts, but so far they don’t seem to be posted online.

I would predict that Roberts would not entertain the idea for a moment—though he should. Cipollone and Graham should not have participated in the trial. But Roberts is a rock-ribbed Republican, so I doubt that he’ll bite.

However, it wouldn’t cost the Democrats anything to put these issues (particularly the Cipollone and Graham scandals) in the spotlight they so richly deserve.
eta: Ravenman, thanks for your answer on the “voting present” issue.

By all sanity, it should be done and Roberts should agree.

In reality, the only reason to do it is similar to if someone much larger than you makes you just so so angry that all you can do is look at them and shriek in helpless anger. And the only reason to do that is simply because you can’t restrain yourself.

no need to redo the trial when we all know the result will be the same. They could have 1000 witnesses and Trump is not going anywhere except to Mar A Lago

Certainly looks like an grievous offense, and there are clear procedures for this.

!) Refer the question to the Atty Gen., get a ruling on whether it falls under the guidelines for absolute unitary executive discretionary immunity.

2)Go to court, and ask for expedited consideration. You may reasonably expect a definitive answer in, let’s see, November = eleven, February = two…nine months.

Or, (3), write it out, scrawl “53 to 47” in it with a Sharpie, wad it up and shove it up your Nixon.

If nothing else, it seems that Cipollone should be disbarred. It will just be more wreckage from the Trump bus. Why does anybody want to work for him again?

Well, I watched Dershowitz on Chris Wallace after posting about him above. Finally, at long last, he said essentially that in the trial he was acting as Trump’s defense attorney, and not just as a defender of the Constitution. And like any smooth lawyer, you would never know he ever claimed anything else. While still thinking his opinion is nonsense (though, IANAL) at least in that sense he can still claim some self-respect. I am assuming he knows his opinion is nonsense, but as a defense laywer, he had to come up with something!

Debating whether this should have been posted in Stupid Republican Idea of the Day thread…
Iowa Senator Joni Ernst warned Sunday that Republicans could immediately push to impeach Joe Biden over his work in Ukraine as vice president if he win the White House.

Indeed, a most erudite way to undertake this masterstroke of gotcha.

Again, this whole idea that this impeachment sets a dangerous precedent is really nothing more than Trump’s defenders grasping at straws.

The fact is that the Clinton impeachment was unpopular. The fact is that the Trump impeachment is somewhat popular. I think Republicans didn’t try to impeach Obama because they knew it would backfire, not out of adherence to any principle or precedent.

If Joni Ernst (by the way, a politician who I can’t associate with doing anything substantive in particular in DC), wants to impeach Biden, that’s no skin off my nose. Go for it. Let’s see how the voters feel about your agenda next time we go to the polls.

I don’t see how you could have Biden win the presidency in the same election that Republicans retook the House. Joni Ernst won’t even win her seat this fall, she can go back to castrating pigs.

misdemeanors, kinda like “well-regulated”

Have you a point, or will you just settle for an insinuation?

I get it. In conditions of pre-fascism “doing the right thing” is made to seem hopeless and pointless.

We’ll have to see what Bloomberg does but, over running for President legitimately or just seeking to become a king maker, I think that he would have done better to team up with Arnold Schwarzenegger and run a campaign to vote everyone out of office and restart the system.

Let’s say Elizabethnie Bidengeig wins the presidency in 2020. When the President learns that Donald Trump, Jr. is going to run in 2024, the President orders Trump’s tax returns to be released.

Folks on either side of the Trump impeachment, I’m curious which precedent do you think should control:

  1. It may be bad, and against the law, but it just isn’t impeachable. (Clinton obstruction/perjury charges.)
  2. It was a violation of the law, but it was at least partially in the public interest, so we should give the President the benefit of the doubt that the action was not corrupt. (Dershowitz interpretation of the forthcoming Trump acquittal by the Senate.)
  3. The bar has been lowered so far that just having this old, gay, female president is sufficient for impeachment. (Joni Ernst interpretation of the Trump impeachment by the House.)
  4. It’s a violation of the law, so of course removal from office is warranted. (Tricked you! This isn’t actually a precedent!)

Alexander has cast his lot with the criminals.

He has justified his vote this week, based on trinp policies that he agrees with, regardless of crimes committed, on Meet the Press. He acknowledged it was wrong and couldn’t mitigate it by anything he knew about the situation. Sasse, and Rubio have come out and agreed with him or more. Doesn’t this impicate the whole party in imeachable crimes?

#4.

I’ll take your word that the President would be breaking a law by making someone’s tax return public. But either way, it’s a very chilling and intimidating kind of abuse of power, and it moves us even further into banana-republic territory than we already are, where the whole point of controlling the government is to enrich yourself and your friends, and bring the hammer down on your enemies.