# The Trump Middle East Peace Plane **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143 "2020-01-29T01:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/1 "2020-01-29T01:25:53Z")
[Was just announced.](https://www.jta.org/2020/01/28/israel/the-key-points-of-the-trump-middle-east-peace-plan-explained) It is a two-state plan with Palestine getting a capital in Jerusalem (but they will call it something else) and a tunnel linking the West Bank and Gaza. I question if there will be any debate on this at all. It will most likely get even less attention than any of a number of similar ideas. The basic problem is that it is a diktat proposed by outsiders. It was designed by people who do not have skin in the game. It will go nowhere. Still, it is out there now. Have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/2 "2020-01-29T02:20:32Z")
Somebody pat Jared on the back. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/3 "2020-01-29T02:23:28Z")
I see I managed to mangle another thread title. Did you know Senior White House Adviser Jared was in high school on 9-11? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/4 "2020-01-29T02:26:57Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Did you know Senior White House Adviser Jared was in high school on 9-11? The restraining order was still pending, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/5 "2020-01-29T02:31:42Z")
Netanyahu seems to be eager to press forward with the plan so this might turn out to be just a second partition. Not exactly sure how peace will result with this strategy though. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/6 "2020-01-29T03:41:59Z")
Plan is Dead on Arrival. At the same time the reality is there’s probably never going to be any agreement that Palestine signs off on, including ones dramatically more beneficial to the Palestinians. Likewise there’s little chance Israel ever gives up some of its larger settlements or withdraws completely from Palestine. It’s basically just a “soft” Crimea or Tibet situation, where on paper the international community will hand wring about it but this situation will likely never change in a meaningful sense. There’s just too many deep seated divisions and cultural issues at play that would somehow have to change, before this situation ever fixes. Now we can make fun of Kushner’s plan because it’s a silly plan worse than many proposed before it, but at the same time it’s probably realistic to just accept this problem has no “solutions” that don’t include a whole lot of time passing and dramatic shifts in Israeli and Palestinian society. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/7 "2020-01-29T07:10:53Z")
The fact that this proposal for permanent colonial status is what now passes for a “two-state” plan shows just how little hope there is of an actual resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/8 "2020-01-29T07:39:20Z")
The tunnel would have to be about 25 miles long, wot? That’s starting to sneak up on Chunnel-scale engineering. Even if this project cost a tenth of the Chunnel, adjusted for inflation that’s got to be nearly £1-2 billion, or sneaking up towards $2.5 billion USD. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/9 "2020-01-29T09:04:05Z")
Who cares? The Palestinians won’t give it a second’s thought, and everybody knows it. Netanyahu can announce to the world that he accepts it in order to make himself look good and it won’t cost him a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/10 "2020-01-29T09:24:54Z")
Note that Netanyahu was indicted yesterday on three counts of corruption, after being forced to waive his sovereign immunity. Nobody cares about the peace plan, except inasmuch as it impacts his political future and the elections in March. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/11 "2020-01-29T10:31:23Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I see I managed to mangle another thread title. \*Oh, Peace Plane sounding louder Ride on the Peace Plane Hoo-ah-eeh-ah-hoo-ah Come on the Peace Plane. Yes, Peace Plane’s a holy roller Everyone jump on the Peace Plane Hoo-ah-eeh-ah-hoo-ah Come on the Peace Plane \* ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/12 "2020-01-29T13:56:39Z")
At least the Saffers had a catchy name for what they made. **Bantustan**. I am sure the Israelis and Americans can come up with something. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/13 "2020-01-29T14:01:41Z")
It just boggles my mind that anyone thought they could come up with a plan to solve this problem without consulting the Palestinians. No matter which side you come down on, you have to at least admit that getting buy-in from all parties is essential to making any plan work. These guys have drunk so much of their own Kool-Aid they apparently can’t even see this most basic fact of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/14 "2020-01-29T14:20:57Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It just boggles my mind that anyone thought they could come up with a plan to solve this problem without consulting the Palestinians. No matter which side you come down on, you have to at least admit that getting buy-in from all parties is essential to making any plan work. > > These guys have drunk so much of their own Kool-Aid they apparently can’t even see this most basic fact of reality. That may be true for Trump and his gang - the full depths of their stupidity has yet to be plumbed - but it definitely doesn’t apply to Netanyahu. Bibi is doing this purely because he can’t say no to Trump and because he hopes that it will make him look like a peacemaker (although not \*too \*much like a peacemaker, otherwise he’d lose votes from the right). If there were any chance whatsoever that the Palestinians would accept the plan, Bibi wouldn’t have backed it. (Contrary to popular opinion and his own crafted image, this isn’t because Netanyahu is some far-right ideologue. He isn’t one. Quite the opposite: he’s a moderate conservative in the worst possible sense, someone who will threaten and bluster and then act to preserve the status quo at all costs. He wants absolutely nothing to change, ever, so long as it keeps him in charge). ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/15 "2020-01-29T14:35:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That may be true for Trump and his gang - the full depths of their stupidity has yet to be plumbed - but it definitely doesn’t apply to Netanyahu. Yeah, I was referring to the Trumpistas there. It’s no surprise that the people on the ground in Israel are playing Trump like a fiddle for their own purposes. But Trump et al. apparently really believed that they could waltz in an solve one of the worst problems of the last century with their simplistic nonsense. I suppose at this point in his presidency, that shouldn’t surprise me, and yet, it still does… ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/16 "2020-01-29T14:41:09Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It just boggles my mind that anyone thought they could come up with a plan to solve this problem without consulting the Palestinians. No matter which side you come down on, you have to at least admit that getting buy-in from all parties is essential to making any plan work. > > These guys have drunk so much of their own Kool-Aid they apparently can’t even see this most basic fact of reality. I don’t think they’re planning on solving it. The plan is purely for the domestic politics of Trump and Netanyahu. There are probably already campaign ads touting the peace plan. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/17 "2020-01-29T14:48:40Z")
Just thinking out loud, Netanyahu may take this chance to annex the West Bank. He will then have a year … or more before the Americans will raise a fuss. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/18 "2020-01-29T14:58:55Z")
Something of this quality of design needs to have the term MAX associated with it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/19 "2020-01-29T15:39:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The tunnel would have to be about 25 miles long, wot? That’s starting to sneak up on Chunnel-scale engineering. Even if this project cost a tenth of the Chunnel, adjusted for inflation that’s got to be nearly £1-2 billion, or sneaking up towards $2.5 billion USD. There’s no point trying to guess the cost by comparing it to an underwater tunnel that’s twice as long. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/20 "2020-01-29T15:48:27Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Just thinking out loud, Netanyahu may take this chance to annex the West Bank. He will then have a year … or more before the Americans will raise a fuss. Wouldn’t various groups of people become rather violent if Israel annexed the West Bank? Suicide attacks with shovels, a hundred at a time? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143.md?page=2)