# The Trump Middle East Peace Plane **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143 "2020-01-29T01:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/21 "2020-01-29T15:52:38Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It just boggles my mind that anyone thought they could come up with a plan to solve this problem without consulting the Palestinians. No matter which side you come down on, you have to at least admit that getting buy-in from all parties is essential to making any plan work. From the perspective of Trump and his inner circle, the plan isn’t supposed to work. It’s just suppose to exist and be Israel-friendly. That appeals to Trumpists, especially the really, really hard core Christian fanatics who have a weird thing for Israel. Many Trumpists will simply come to believe this peace plan was actually implemented and is working, just as they really believe that there’s a wall Mexico is paying for, and that North Korea is a great friend now. It’s purely a political signal. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/22 "2020-01-29T16:01:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There’s no point trying to guess the cost by comparing it to an underwater tunnel that’s twice as long. A quick Google indicates that the Chunnel is about 31 miles long. I don’t think 31 is twice as long as 25 (assuming that the tunnel would be close to 25 miles) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/23 "2020-01-29T16:06:26Z")
I read the longest tunnel on the Trump plan is about 34km, Chunnel is 50km. So not twice, but much longer and a completely different challenge to digging under the ocean. Eta: but it would still be ridiculously expensive and apparently the plan doesn’t discuss who would pay for it. I assume Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/24 "2020-01-29T16:08:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > From the perspective of Trump and his inner circle, the plan isn’t supposed to work. It’s just suppose to exist and be Israel-friendly. That appeals to Trumpists, especially the really, really hard core Christian fanatics who have a weird thing for Israel. Many Trumpists will simply come to believe this peace plan was actually implemented and is working, just as they really believe that there’s a wall Mexico is paying for, and that North Korea is a great friend now. It’s purely a political signal. And that’s part of what boggles my mind. Even if I’m charitable enough to assume that Trump et al. are just coming up with “plans” to sell to the rubes, I’m amazed that enough of the rubes are stupid enough that _this plan_, the one that is so obviously going to fail, will still convince them. It’s like, if you asked me to build you a ladder to get on your roof, and I showed up with a 20-foot ladder that has only one rung, that’s halfway up the ladder, and expected you to still pay me. It’s so obviously stupid! If I was going to try to scam you with a cheap fake ladder so I could skim extra profits, I’d at least make it _look_ like a real ladder, even if the materials were such crap that it would fall apart if you tried to use it. It would have to be at least real-looking enough to fool you long enough for me to drive away with your money in my pocket. I mean, wasn’t there even _one_ Palestinian they could bribe to sit with them and agree with them, just to make it look good? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/25 "2020-01-29T16:18:01Z")
CarnalK: > [@](#): > > but it would still be ridiculously expensive and apparently the plan doesn’t discuss who would pay for it. I assume Mexico. Hamas has become pretty good at digging tunnels into Israeli territory. I don’t know who’s paying them to do that, but maybe they can bankroll these tunnels. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/26 "2020-01-29T16:21:54Z")
You can’t come up with a plan that has a prayer of working when you exclude one of the players from the discussions. Of course it’s dead on arrival as it should be. Tunnels? Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/27 "2020-01-29T16:45:58Z")
> [@](#): > > The Trump Middle East Peace Plane Put all the leaders of all the assorted Middle East factions on one plane and fly them around until they either kill each other off or come to agreement? That might actually work . . . except that a) any agreement would come apart again as soon as they got off the plane and b) in the meantime new leaders and quite possibly new factions would have popped up on the ground. And of course c), you’d never get them all on that plane in the first place. I don’t know if there is any way of solving this one. It’s a horrendous mess. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/28 "2020-01-29T17:20:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There’s no point trying to guess the cost by comparing it to an underwater tunnel that’s twice as long. Even to guesstimate one \*tenth \*of the cost? Well, excuse the hell out of _me._ A casual search finds various billion-dollar tunnel projects all over the world, so feel free to pick one that’s \*not \*underwater. Of course, most of those tunnels meant for transportation (as opposed to aquaducts) are within or between major urban centers that have populations larger than all of Palestine, so not only would this tunnel be very expensive to build and maintain, but it couldn’t possibly convey enough people on a daily basis to be worthwhile unless every single user pays a $100 toll in which case you might pay it off sometime in the mid 22nd-century. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/29 "2020-01-30T07:24:19Z")
I didn’t give the Twerp Kushner’s plan enough dignity to click on a link, but … > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The tunnel would have to be about 25 miles long, wot? … It is horridly pathetic and dreadfully absurd that borders require tunnels or overpasses to prevent contact. (Yes, I realize there already are underpasses and overpasses to connect Palestinian villages without infringing on the surface of the precious enclaves Israel has [del]stolen[/del] conquered because God told them to.) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/30 "2020-01-30T07:37:56Z")
Not to humor this fake plan any more than it deserves, but my assumption is that the “tunnel” would just be a cut-and-cover ditch, so it could probably be a lot cheaper than the Channel Tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/31 "2020-01-30T07:42:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The tunnel would have to be about 25 miles long, wot? That’s starting to sneak up on Chunnel-scale engineering. Even if this project cost a tenth of the Chunnel, adjusted for inflation that’s got to be nearly £1-2 billion, or sneaking up towards $2.5 billion USD. Has there ever been a tunnel that traveled underneath a different country than the ones it connects? Would the tunnel be considered Palestinian territory or Israeli territory? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/32 "2020-01-30T13:13:40Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Put all the leaders of all the assorted Middle East factions on one plane and fly them around until they either kill each other off or come to agreement? > > That might actually work . . . > > except that a) any agreement would come apart again as soon as they got off the plane and b) in the meantime new leaders and quite possibly new factions would have popped up on the ground. And of course c), you’d never get them all on that plane in the first place. > > I don’t know if there is any way of solving this one. It’s a horrendous mess. You’ve misunderstood. The idea is to put them all on one plane, then calculate their respective vectors and derivate peace from the graph. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/33 "2020-01-30T13:34:29Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Not to humor this fake plan any more than it deserves, but my assumption is that the “tunnel” would just be a cut-and-cover ditch, so it could probably be a lot cheaper than the Channel Tunnel. Considering that it would be passing under any number of Israeli towns, farmlands and highways, it would probably be cheaper just to dig it deep. Considering the amount of bureaucracy involved, it would \*definitely \*be faster. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/34 "2020-01-30T15:30:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Has there ever been a tunnel that traveled underneath a different country than the ones it connects? Would the tunnel be considered Palestinian territory or Israeli territory? I don’t know, it looks like this plan took a left turn at Albuquerque. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/35 "2020-01-30T17:18:08Z")
If the tunnel was ever built, it would be a prime target for destruction. It would be a symbol of a hamfisted US-Israeli forced division of land. How about we get someone with experience started with honest negotiations and not the pinheaded son-in-law of a halfwit? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/36 "2020-01-30T18:46:05Z")
Well, you’re going to have division of land no matter what you do. You can’t unify Gaza and the West Bank without splitting Israel, so if you believe in a two-state solution, at least one of those states is going to have to be divided. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/37 "2020-01-30T18:55:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, you’re going to have division of land no matter what you do. You can’t unify Gaza and the West Bank without splitting Israel, so if you believe in a two-state solution, at least one of those states is going to have to be divided. What if, just spitballing here, they _don’t_ unify Gaza and the West Bank? Set each up as semi-independent mini-states with the option to be re-absorbed by Jordan or Egypt? Could either of them sustain a weak but viable economy (I expect Gaza would have an advantage because of its seaports)? Is Palestinian nationalism really a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/38 "2020-01-30T19:09:21Z")
It is. One key turning point in the conflict was during the Israeli-Egyptian peace talks leading up to the Camp David accords in the late 1970s. Israel wanted Egypt to take the Gaza strip along with the Sinai, Egypt refused, and unfortunately, Jimmy Carter took the Egyptians’ side. Another missed opportunity in a long history of them. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/39 "2020-01-30T19:24:22Z")
Anyway, Israel would love it if the Jordanians and Egyptians took responsibility for the Territories. The Palestinians, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143/40 "2020-01-30T19:26:13Z")
How much would you have to _pay_ Egypt and Jordan to take these territories and assume responsibility for them? Is there _any_ amount, or do they view them as ultimate boondoggles? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-middle-east-peace-plane/847143.md?page=3)