# The Trump Presidency HAS to end with Impeachment... right? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406 "2017-05-11T23:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/181 "2017-05-15T02:13:13Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There is a kernel of truth in that but only in the sense that Nixon was very unpopular with liberals, despised by the media, and deeply mistrusted by almost everyone. But it was the audacity of the Watergate conspiracies and coverups – the shameless criminality of the whole gang of Nixon underlings – that drove Woodward and Bernstein’s investigations and the eventual Senate Watergate Committee hearings, not Vietnam. Virtually all of this is true for Trump, and although outright criminality has yet to be established, the lying, malfeasance, and utter incompetence of this administration is totally unprecedented. Carl Bernstein said today something to the effect that in Watergate, republicans put country before party, whereas today they are putting party before country. In 1973-74, Republicans did not have the power they have now. Moreover, they were stuck with the task of trying to defend a president who was seen as being increasingly ineffective – he had been on the job for more than 4 years. This is not the case with Trump in 2017. He’s not even filled his cabinet posts (granted he’s had something to do with that but still…). Democrats in 2017 are weak. Republicans, while certainly vulnerable, control congress, the presidency, and most state legislatures. They are also increasingly influential in the judicial branch. Republicans are putting party before country precisely because they can. And that’s not going to change in the coming months. It’s important that Democrats – and everyone else – reckon with this fact. I agree that more facts are important but the ‘way out’ is to raise the stakes and to anticipate the future. And the future is this: Republican policies, whatever the hell they are, will ultimately fail us all. And what they need to do is to start laying the groundwork for that, so that they can make themselves look prophetic. They also need to intensify the rhetoric and they need to promise harsh consequences for the GOP should congress fall into their possession again. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/182 "2017-05-15T02:31:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re right! > > Not that I was fudging it – I didn’t notice the limitation. There’s still an arbitrage opportunity between your betting site and mine though. Just not as much of one. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/183 "2017-05-15T02:33:35Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > …me spit Diet Coke … Diet Coke? That’s kind of PC SJW fucked-with soda, isn’t it? Why don’t you go for the gusto and grab a good old American Coke?? ETA: Or the Mexican kind, you’re close enough, that’s made with honest to goodness sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/184 "2017-05-15T02:48:47Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This is not the case with Trump in 2017. He’s not even filled his cabinet posts (granted he’s had something to do with that but still…). Democrats in 2017 are weak. Republicans, while certainly vulnerable, control congress, the presidency, and most state legislatures. They are also increasingly influential in the judicial branch. Republicans are putting party before country precisely because they can. And that’s not going to change in the coming months. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, except this last sentence. I think there’s a chance stuff changes quickly. There is something going on behind the scenes. Not to get all conspiracy theory, but Jason Chaffetz isn’t [resigning his position to spend more time with his family](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/19/why-is-jason-chaffetz-suddenly-retiring-from-congress-one-word-ambition/?utm_term=.4105d5b49c09), the FBI is not [raiding a GOP consulting firm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-raids-maryland-republican-political-consultants-office/2017/05/11/b4d613e8-368b-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.7d83e6ed535f) because of 14 year old settled civil lawsuits, the NY attorney general didn’t suddenly become interested in [real estate deals](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-14/manafort-s-real-estate-deals-said-to-be-probed-by-n-y-s-top-cop) associated with Trump’s inner circle, grand juries are not [empaneled for no reason,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html) Trump isn’t finally acknowledging his [Russian finance connections for the sake of transparency,](http://time.com/4777128/donald-trump-tax-returns-russia/)and most importantly, Trump didn’t fire Comey because of Clinton’s emails. This is all stuff from the last week or so. I think there’s a chance that this blows up very big, in which case things are going to change in the coming months. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/185 "2017-05-15T04:51:52Z")
> [@2nd\_Law](#): > > Trump is 70 years old, overweight, and probably in lousy physical condition. Quitting to “spend more time with his family” is out, seeing as half his family is on staff with him already. I suspect he’s not going to stick around to get impeached, but rather he is going to have a health related “crisis” (quotes because the “crisis” could be real or feigned), heart attack or stroke (probably not Alzheimer’s because that would strike too close to home for Trump’s comfort), which will result in his stepping down for “the good of the country”. I seem to be the only person out there who thinks Lord Dampnut will commit suicide rather than resign or be impeached. :eek: No, I don’t want him to leave the White House that way, mmmkay? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/186 "2017-05-15T05:14:16Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, except this last sentence. I think there’s a chance stuff changes quickly. There is something going on behind the scenes. Not to get all conspiracy theory, but Jason Chaffetz isn’t [resigning his position to spend more time with his family](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/19/why-is-jason-chaffetz-suddenly-retiring-from-congress-one-word-ambition/?utm_term=.4105d5b49c09), the FBI is not [raiding a GOP consulting firm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-raids-maryland-republican-political-consultants-office/2017/05/11/b4d613e8-368b-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.7d83e6ed535f) because of 14 year old settled civil lawsuits, the NY attorney general didn’t suddenly become interested in [real estate deals](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-14/manafort-s-real-estate-deals-said-to-be-probed-by-n-y-s-top-cop) associated with Trump’s inner circle, grand juries are not [empaneled for no reason,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html) Trump isn’t finally acknowledging his [Russian finance connections for the sake of transparency,](http://time.com/4777128/donald-trump-tax-returns-russia/)and most importantly, Trump didn’t fire Comey because of Clinton’s emails. This is all stuff from the last week or so. I think there’s a chance that this blows up very big, in which case things are going to change in the coming months. I’m with you. I’ve no doubt Trump is dirty, dirty, dirty, and the reason he’s fighting it all so hard is because Comey’s investigation is getting close. Pretty much everyone who’s been close to understanding the direct ties has been fired. Every single US Attorney and none have been replaced, including Preet Bharara, who was investigating Russian money laundering. Sally Yates as acting AG, who knows how dirty Flynn is. And of course, Comey. But Comey was plenty smart enough to know this was a potential, and I’m confident he will have taken steps to safeguard the results of his investigation to date – no matter who Trump attempts to put in as a replacement. Subpoenas… grand juries empaneled… I think the best Trump can hope for is that his new FBI Director will attempt to slow-walk the investigation, as Republicans are doing with their weird impediments to the House/Senate investigations. In the wonderful words of Malcolm Nance, the target’s gettin’ buggy. Trump appears increasingly unstable as the situation unfolds. Problem is, there isn’t much of anyone left who will be in a position to bring charges, unless a special prosecutor is named. Dems look like they’re getting ready to take a stand on this when Trump tries to name his new FBI Director – and with 78% of the country behind them, it’s probably a good move. I expect Trump to try for Mike Rogers next week. We’ll see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/187 "2017-05-15T05:50:05Z")
What interests me is how quiet Manafort has been. [International money laundering.](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/manafort-linked-accounts-cyprus-raised-red-flag-n739156) [His daughter accusing him of murder in hacked texts.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/10/politics/ukraine-manafort-hacked-texts/) [Lobbying for a foreign government.](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/paul-manafort-foreign-agent-ukraine-237179) [Being paid for _years_ to advance Russian / Putin interests in the West, including undermining Democratic institutions.](https://apnews.com/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a/manaforts-plan-greatly-benefit-putin-government) All that, and then some, came out in March. Since then… silence. Manafort was not only Trump’s campaign manager, but has lived in Trump Tower for years and was known to be advising Trump in secret even after stepping down. There’s nothing impeachable there? Trump is an idiot that brags about potentially obstructing justice in a national interview, without any clue how big of a deal that is. There’s no way he hasn’t, somewhere, commited some sort of money laundering for nefarious actors – like, I don’t know, [Russian oligarchs](http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/27/news/donald-trump-russian-deal-mansion/) or the [Iranian Revolutionary Guard](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal). If they come at him, it’s going to be hard and fast, without much warning, or leaks to the press. For now, wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/188 "2017-05-15T06:19:43Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Problem is, there isn’t much of anyone left who will be in a position to bring charges, unless a special prosecutor is named. Dems look like they’re getting ready to take a stand on this when Trump tries to name his new FBI Director – and with 78% of the country behind them, it’s probably a good move. It’s not going to happen, but I imagine that if Trump selected Preet Bharara as Director of the FBI, the Democrats would probably accept him. But outside of that one example, I probably can’t think of anyone that the Democrats are going to let through without a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/189 "2017-05-15T06:37:11Z")
If Democrats are serious - not merely symbolic/PR; \*serious \* - about Trump being impeached and convicted, they need to have it initiated by a Republican Congressman. Having a Democrat initiate it is a surefire way to get many Republicans to vote against it out of spite. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/190 "2017-05-15T08:42:15Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, except this last sentence. I think there’s a chance stuff changes quickly. There is something going on behind the scenes. Not to get all conspiracy theory, but Jason Chaffetz isn’t [resigning his position to spend more time with his family](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/19/why-is-jason-chaffetz-suddenly-retiring-from-congress-one-word-ambition/?utm_term=.4105d5b49c09), the FBI is not [raiding a GOP consulting firm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-raids-maryland-republican-political-consultants-office/2017/05/11/b4d613e8-368b-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.7d83e6ed535f) because of 14 year old settled civil lawsuits, the NY attorney general didn’t suddenly become interested in [real estate deals](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-14/manafort-s-real-estate-deals-said-to-be-probed-by-n-y-s-top-cop) associated with Trump’s inner circle, grand juries are not [empaneled for no reason,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html) Trump isn’t finally acknowledging his [Russian finance connections for the sake of transparency,](http://time.com/4777128/donald-trump-tax-returns-russia/)and most importantly, Trump didn’t fire Comey because of Clinton’s emails. This is all stuff from the last week or so. I think there’s a chance that this blows up very big, in which case things are going to change in the coming months. While I truly want to believe this, it sounds like EVERY week since he has become president. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/191 "2017-05-15T11:21:47Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, except this last sentence. I think there’s a chance stuff changes quickly. There is something going on behind the scenes. Not to get all conspiracy theory, but Jason Chaffetz isn’t [resigning his position to spend more time with his family](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/19/why-is-jason-chaffetz-suddenly-retiring-from-congress-one-word-ambition/?utm_term=.4105d5b49c09), the FBI is not [raiding a GOP consulting firm](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fbi-raids-maryland-republican-political-consultants-office/2017/05/11/b4d613e8-368b-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.7d83e6ed535f) because of 14 year old settled civil lawsuits, the NY attorney general didn’t suddenly become interested in [real estate deals](https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-14/manafort-s-real-estate-deals-said-to-be-probed-by-n-y-s-top-cop) associated with Trump’s inner circle, grand juries are not [empaneled for no reason,](http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.html) Trump isn’t finally acknowledging his [Russian finance connections for the sake of transparency,](http://time.com/4777128/donald-trump-tax-returns-russia/)and most importantly, Trump didn’t fire Comey because of Clinton’s emails. This is all stuff from the last week or so. I think there’s a chance that this blows up very big, in which case things are going to change in the coming months. I don’t disagree that the facts and the trail of evidence are probably quite ominous in a strictly legal sense for many of Trump’s associates and quite possibly for the man himself – that’s probably what the facts say and where the trail of evidence leads. And yet, they do have a few cards left to play. Trump and his Republican stalwarts know that things don’t look good, factually speaking…which is why they’re simply and consciously going to deny the facts, and they’re going to make a concerted effort to destroy truth, and if they can’t do that, then they’ll try to distort everyone else’s perception of truth. Basically, the GOP – not just Trump but the entire party that long ago gave up any pretense of lip service to having an actual functioning democracy – are going to do everything in their power to arrest and de-legitimize the investigations that would result in their downfall. That’s what needs to be remembered here: the GOP has a lot invested in this, too. They are committed to an anti-democratic agenda and they know that it’s an agenda that the rest of the country doesn’t want. They know that using democratic means, they can’t achieve their ends. So they will resort to using anti-democratic means – they’ve been doing this for a while actually. But now rather than gerrymandering and using laws to suppress voting in minority districts, they’re now down to ignoring the rule of law and destroying institutions that can hold them accountable. If this were a matter of Trump being a rogue Executive, I think most of us would rest more easily. But it’s not about that at all: what we’re seeing here is a group of neo-confederates trying to take over the country by force. They just, for PR reasons, can’t come out and say it right now. But again, look at the polls: 34-40 percent of people are, to varying degrees, supporting the president. And for GOP congressmen who go back to their home district, that number is probably anywhere from 45-70 percent. There is a rather surprising and alarming degree of democratic support for undemocratic behavior. That’s why this is so disturbing and probably why it will continue until these voters are themselves directly confronted with the consequences of their own voting behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/192 "2017-05-15T14:30:48Z")
I’m hoping what’s actually going on is that there was widespread campaign fraud. Whether there was Russian money or not, I don’t much care though it would make the story more sensational. I want to find out that we had the mother of all campaign finance fraud cases. It would explain that the FBI now seems more focused on financial issues all of a sudden, and it would explain the GOP reluctance to come to Jesus (so to speak) with regard to Trump. And it would force us to fund our elections in a rational way in the future. If the Trump administration pulls this off, albeit accidentally and at their own expense, then Trump was worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/193 "2017-05-15T14:37:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m hoping what’s actually going on is that there was widespread campaign fraud. This is pathetic, but really describes well the left’s position today. All they are left with is hoping (against hope) that there is something, anything at all, please God let there be, illegal that they can pin on Trump. The disappointment and the hair pulling when in the end there won’t be anything found will be delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/194 "2017-05-15T14:46:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This is pathetic, but really describes well the left’s position today. All they are left with is hoping (against hope) that there is something, anything at all, please God let there be, illegal that they can pin on Trump. > > The disappointment and the hair pulling when in the end there won’t be anything found will be delicious. I have my hopes, and you have yours. And we will see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/195 "2017-05-15T14:52:36Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This is pathetic, but really describes well the left’s position today. All they are left with is hoping (against hope) that there is something, anything at all, please God let there be, illegal that they can pin on Trump. > > The disappointment and the hair pulling when in the end there won’t be anything found will be delicious. We’re just being good citizens of the earth, hoping that we can rid ourselves of this menace to humanity and indeed to all creatures great and small. I hope they find something huge to pin on him, and even though I am against capital punishment I hope they find something to convict him on that is a capital offense, to be administered quickly and publicly. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/196 "2017-05-15T15:17:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m hoping what’s actually going on is that there was widespread campaign fraud. Whether there was Russian money or not, I don’t much care though it would make the story more sensational. I want to find out that we had the mother of all campaign finance fraud cases. It would explain that the FBI now seems more focused on financial issues all of a sudden, and it would explain the GOP reluctance to come to Jesus (so to speak) with regard to Trump. > > And it would force us to fund our elections in a rational way in the future. If the Trump administration pulls this off, albeit accidentally and at their own expense, then Trump was worth it. Again, this assumes that there is the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/197 "2017-05-15T15:23:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How much more motivated will that investigation be than the opposition research from the Democrats AND the Republicans pre-nomination/election? > > Here’s what I perceive: you’re still (consciously or unconsciously) hanging on to a model that rates “shady shit” as things that would normally be politically damaging, like pussy-grabbing, telling a beauty contestant winner she’s fat, or calling a sitting US Senator “Pocahantas.” I have little doubt there’s more material in that vein out there; I question what kinds of effect it would have. Actually, I go further: I argue affirmatively that would have little effect. Colluded in what way? I would love to have Trump frog marched out of the white house but are we talking about Trump saying “Heck yeah, Putin, if you can dig up some dirt on Hillary, that would be great, what can I do to help?” (which wouldn’t hurt him at all) or are we talking about Trump saying “Hey Putin, help me win this election and when I get in the white house I will hand drop those sanctions” (which seems far fetched eve for Trump). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/198 "2017-05-15T15:36:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Carl Bernstein said today something to the effect that in Watergate, republicans put country before party, whereas today they are putting party before country. In 1973-74, Republicans did not have the power they have now. Moreover, they were stuck with the task of trying to defend a president who was seen as being increasingly ineffective – he had been on the job for more than 4 years. > > This is not the case with Trump in 2017. He’s not even filled his cabinet posts (granted he’s had something to do with that but still…). Democrats in 2017 are weak. Republicans, while certainly vulnerable, control congress, the presidency, and most state legislatures. They are also increasingly influential in the judicial branch. Republicans are putting party before country precisely because they can. And that’s not going to change in the coming months. > > … The Republican party is different today. Don’t accuse me of saying everything was perfect then; it wasn’t. But government functioned. Work could be accomplished across the aisle. Lowell Weicker (governor of Connecticut from 1991 to 1995 and a U.S. senator from 1971 to 1988) said it well in an [op-ed](http://www.courant.com/opinion/op-ed/hc-op-weicker-republicans-self-destructed-0515-20160513-story.html) in 2016: > [@](#): > > When Republicans convene in Cleveland this summer and bestow upon Donald Trump the nomination to be the party’s standard-bearer, they will complete their slow and steady descent into irrelevance. The party of Lincoln, once governed by ideals and principles that reflected prudent financial governance and social conscience, is no more. > > Though aging, I can still recall a Republican Party that was truly national in scope represented by the likes of Nelson Rockefeller, Barry Goldwater, John Sherman Cooper, Howard Baker, Clifford Case, John Chaffee, Ed Brooke, Jacob Javits, Charles Percy, John Heinz, Alan Simpson … and, yes, yours truly. There were Republicans who represented big city constituencies as well as rural populations and there was respect within the caucus for the problems facing both. > > Since the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Republican Party shifted focus from issues that affected people’s well-being to issues of philosophical purity. In so doing, it alienated women, blacks, Hispanics, the disabled and on and on. Ronald Reagan threatened so many programs for the disadvantaged, from health care, to education, to social services that whole swaths of Americans felt threatened. The moderate eastern Republican fell victim to Republican extremists from within, such as William F. Buckley, and the party started to disintegrate. > > Nothing more clearly demonstrates the result of this self-inflicted isolation than the Republican Congress we have today. … THIS is what has happened. The Tea Party/Freedom Caucus put the final nails in the coffin. Not saying much is better on the Democratic side. We’ve been lamenting the lack of inspirational leaders of integrity on the liberal side, too. I believe Democratic principles and policies are better for the country, for all citizens, but if there’s no one to lead, the point is moot. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/199 "2017-05-15T15:40:27Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m hoping what’s actually going on is that there was widespread campaign fraud. Whether there was Russian money or not, I don’t much care though it would make the story more sensational. I want to find out that we had the mother of all campaign finance fraud cases. It would explain that the FBI now seems more focused on financial issues all of a sudden, and it would explain the GOP reluctance to come to Jesus (so to speak) with regard to Trump. > > And it would force us to fund our elections in a rational way in the future. If the Trump administration pulls this off, albeit accidentally and at their own expense, then Trump was worth it. You realize that Hillary raised and spent twice as much as Trump (though less that Obama in either of his two elections and with more money from larger donors). ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/200 "2017-05-15T16:17:18Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I seem to be the only person out there who thinks Lord Dampnut will commit suicide rather than resign or be impeached. :eek: > > No, I don’t want him to leave the White House that way, mmmkay? That, and death by natural causes would be a CT that would never died. The only democratically-elected president to commit suicide while in office is, AFAIK, Dominican president Antonio Guzmán Fernández. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406.md?page=11)