# The Trump Presidency HAS to end with Impeachment... right? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406 "2017-05-11T23:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/261 "2017-05-17T12:12:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Personally, I think Donald Trump is a danger to the country and needs to be removed from office either by impeachment or a Constitutional coup under the 25th Amendment. However, I’ll come to the defense of those who are sitting on the fence. Impeachment is an extraordinary step and should always be considered very carefully – one of the reasons why I was opposed to the impeachment proceedings against President Clinton despite voting against him in 1998 and basically agreeing that there was evidence of perjury. In my view, the offense has to be more than something that is technically illegal. It should represent a serious breach of public trust and should call into question the integrity of the office. Impeachment ought to be reserved for clear and present dangers to the Constitution and the Republic. And moreover, there has to be clear and convincing evidence that such acts have been committed. The allegations made against Trump are substantial – no doubt about that. And there is some evidence to support the claims against him, but I can understand those who want to wait for more evidence to corroborate the various accounts. It’s an extreme step to remove a sitting president, and it requires more than just outrage over alleged wrongdoing to justify going through with it. Which is why I asked the question I just asked. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/262 "2017-05-17T12:21:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which sort of implies that you _don’t_ have a problem with what is going on, either because you approve of what he is doing, or because the price of gaining political control is worth the damage being done by this malevolent Forrest Gump. I do not oppose Trump because of his tenuous party affiliation-I oppose him for the damage he has done, is currently doing and is threatening to do in the future, and I would oppose the person I voted for if he or she acted this same way. Nope. It “implies” that I recognize that the GOP controls Congress and that impeachment isn’t going to happen based on Trump’s action so far. And if the Democrats can flip the House in 2018, they still have to convict in the Senate to remove Trump; which is another political impossibility. But actually, I don’t think even the Democrats would impeach Trump. I’ll believe that when I hear it from Nancy Pelosi. So far, she’s on record as opposing impeachment. If that changes, then there will be facts on the ground that will change my expectation. Of corse you still have to convict in the Senate. Do you think that will happen? I don’t think impeachment is the way to get rid of Trump in the same way I don’t think we can find a spell to do it in one of the Harry Potter books. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/263 "2017-05-17T12:22:12Z")
Democrats in office haven’t been talking about impeachment at all until the last day or two, and even then it’s very cautious and vague statements. Some Democratic and liberal voters have, but I see no evidence that any more have been pushing this than Republican voters who pushed for Obama to be impeached. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/264 "2017-05-17T12:25:23Z")
Dems last night on cable shows were very reluctant to use the “I-word”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/265 "2017-05-17T12:30:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ghod knows I have asked this question in the past enough times without receive a straight answer but lets give it another shot: What _specifically_ would Trump have to do for you to get on board with impeaching him? Do you remember the James Randi $1 Million Challenge? The jist of it was (they gave up a few years ago) that Randi has a million bucks in a trust that will be awarded to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal abilities - mind reading, ESP, psychokinesis, stuff like that. All a person has to do it show it is agree to a test with Randi (or his people) - settle on a clear test, that both agree on, that would prove the ability. Then the test is run, and if they can do it, they get handed a check for a million dollars. No one has ever won it. The thing is, they haven’t actually run the test that often because most people refuse to quantify what their paranormal ability is. They’ll start off saying they can move stuff or read minds or what have you, but when push comes to shove they refuse, when it’s time to agree on the conditions of the test, to quite say what they’re capable of. Very few people ever actually agreed to a formal test. Thousands of people approached Randi saying they could do it, but 95% of them or more backed out when he started talking turkey about setting up a test. Trumpists are like that. I’ve asked Trumpist after Trumpist, ever chance I get “what would it take?” They NEVER answer the question directly. Never. No Trumpist will ever unambiguously say “I will stop supporting Donald Trump if he does/fails to do X.” They just won’t directly answer that question, because I think, even if it might be subconscious, they know he will probably fail the test, and they prefer instead to project upon him what they want him to be. If you had gotten a real Trumpist (which Bricker is not, so insert your true red Trumpist of choice here) two months ago “Well, what if Trump invited Russians into the Oval Office, with only Russian media allowed to be present, and gave them really sensitive intelligence information that we wouldn’t even share with a close ally? Would that make you finally distrust him?” or “What if he fired the Director of the FBI to try to stop an active investigation into his own campaign?” you might think they’d say “Gosh, yes, at that point.” **But you would not have gotten an answer.** No straight answer, anyway; they’ll say - Never happen that a stupid thing to ask - Clinton would do that why aren’t you talking about Clinton - There’s no ties to Russia - This is irrelevant, the important thing is we stop the Mexicans Etc., etc. They will not agree to a test. In the next few weeks if we have unquestionable, documented evidence Trump pressured James Comey to end the Russia investigation, an act that clearly should result in his impeachment and conviction, **Trumpists will not care.** They will claim it’s fake news, or that obstruction of justice is not a crime, or Clinton, or whatever. But the hell of it is you won’t be able to back and say “But you said this would be enough to make you want Trump out,” because Trumpists don’t agree to tests. [QUOTE=John Mace] I’ll believe that when I hear it from Nancy Pelosi. So far, she’s on record as opposing impeachment. [/QUOTE] Pelosi isn’t stupid. She knows as well as you and I do that the Republicans will not impeach Trump for 99% of all impeachable offenses; he could rape and murder a teenaged girl and they’ll say it’s fake news. Impeachment is a one shot deal; if they try to impeach Trump and fail, they don’t politically have a second chance. To attempt impeachment now would be insane because there isn’t the political will to do it, and there isn’t enough evidence yet to do it. There may be a lot of evidence built up in the next few months but the political will has to be developed from that. Impeachment only happens if a sufficient number of Republicans are worried about losing their jobs. Right now there is no evidence Trump’s obvious criminality and ineptitude are threatening GOP politicians. But people are getting pissed off about other issues, and it that builds up, increasing evidence of Trump’s betrayals and crimes will force a lot of Republicans to decide it’s safer to look good than to feel good. Truly hard core Trumpists aren’t sufficiently numerous to guarantee election in many districts and states presently held by Republicans. The Democrats can’t throw the touchdown pass now, because no one’s open. They have to wait until the time is right. If they’d tried to impeach Nixon in December 1973, they would have failed, the chance would have gotten by them, and Nixon would have served out his term. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/266 "2017-05-17T12:35:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nope. It “implies” that I recognize that the GOP controls Congress and that impeachment isn’t going to happen based on Trump’s action so far. And if the Democrats can flip the House in 2018, they still have to convict in the Senate to remove Trump; which is another political impossibility. But actually, I don’t think even the Democrats would impeach Trump. I’ll believe that when I hear it from Nancy Pelosi. So far, she’s on record as opposing impeachment. If that changes, then there will be facts on the ground that will change my expectation. Of corse you still have to convict in the Senate. Do you think that will happen? > > I don’t think impeachment is the way to get rid of Trump in the same way I don’t think we can find a spell to do it in one of the Harry Potter books. I think asking Comey to stop investigating Flynn is a bridge too far even for Republicans. This is going more quickly than anyone could have forseen two weeks ago. The memos will be subpoenaed, Comey will testify, and the house of cards collapses. I predict resignation by July 1. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/267 "2017-05-17T12:38:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Democrats in office haven’t been talking about impeachment at all until the last day or two, and even then it’s very cautious and vague statements. > > Some Democratic and liberal voters have, but I see no evidence that any more have been pushing this than Republican voters who pushed for Obama to be impeached. That implies you support Trump!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/268 "2017-05-17T12:40:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ghod knows I have asked this question in the past enough times without receive a straight answer but lets give it another shot: What _specifically_ would Trump have to do for you to get on board with impeaching him? I’d need evidence rising to the level of probable cause that Trump had violated the criminal law of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/269 "2017-05-17T12:40:25Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Except in certain specific circumstances, lying is not a high crime or misdemeanor. For the president it God damned well should be. Especially on the scale Trump does it. I realize it’s not but on matters of policy and national security is it really that unreasonable to hold the president liable to the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/270 "2017-05-17T12:42:57Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > This is Bricker - you’ll never get a straight answer. He takes his posting style directly from the Governor in this following video on youtube: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emc1M5F9I-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emc1M5F9I-E) Please see post 268. Do you argue that my answer there is not a straight answer? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/271 "2017-05-17T12:44:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think asking Comey to stop investigating Flynn is a bridge too far even for Republicans. This is going more quickly than anyone could have forseen two weeks ago. The memos will be subpoenaed, Comey will testify, and the house of cards collapses. I predict resignation by July 1. Remember when you predicted Chris Christie would be “gone by Easter” or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/272 "2017-05-17T12:53:51Z")
This just in : Congressman Al Green (D-Texas) has vowed to call for impeachement on the floor today. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/273 "2017-05-17T12:55:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think asking Comey to stop investigating Flynn is a bridge too far even for Republicans. This is going more quickly than anyone could have forseen two weeks ago. The memos will be subpoenaed, Comey will testify, and the house of cards collapses. I predict resignation by July 1. And I predict we’ll add this to your list of confident, failed predictions. Let’s see which one of us has a better understanding of the political sphere, as measured by the ability to correctly predict future events. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/274 "2017-05-17T12:55:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d need evidence rising to the level of probable cause that Trump had violated the criminal law of the United States. Did the case of Richard Nixon rise to that level, in your opinion? Do you think he should have been impeached/convicted had he not resigned? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/275 "2017-05-17T13:03:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Pelosi isn’t stupid. She knows as well as you and I do that the Republicans will not impeach Trump for 99% of all impeachable offenses; he could rape and murder a teenaged girl and they’ll say it’s fake news. > > Impeachment is a one shot deal; if they try to impeach Trump and fail, they don’t politically have a second chance. To attempt impeachment now would be insane because there isn’t the political will to do it, and there isn’t enough evidence yet to do it. There may be a lot of evidence built up in the next few months but the political will has to be developed from that. I suspect that there’s not a lot of drive to impeach Trump because leadership Democrats think having him in office will destroy the Republicans. His behavior stirs up the Democratic base, and demoralizes marginal Republicans, in a way that President Pence probably wouldn’t. I’m sure Democratic leadership supports investigating (and leaking!) Trump’s actions, but I wouldn’t be super surprised if they didn’t join Republicans if any Republicans moved to impeach. They’d probably be super happy to sit on the sidelines and watch the Republican party disintegrate. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/276 "2017-05-17T13:06:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Truly hard core Trumpists aren’t sufficiently numerous to guarantee election in many districts and states presently held by Republicans. There _are_ enough hardcore Trumpets in most red districts to guarantee _non_-election to any Republican who offends them to the point where they stay home or vote third-party. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/277 "2017-05-17T13:08:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think asking Comey to stop investigating Flynn is a bridge too far even for Republicans. This is going more quickly than anyone could have forseen two weeks ago. The memos will be subpoenaed, Comey will testify, and the house of cards collapses. I predict resignation by July 1. I’ve got five hundred bucks says you’re wrong. 1. You are underestimating Trump’s core support to a truly bizarre degree. There is no chance in hell that in six week any significant number of Trumpists will be converted. None. 2. You are wildly overestimating Republican patriotism. Republicans don’t value America over their jobs and their agenda; it’s much more important to them to hurt gay people than it is to help other Americans. They will NOT impeach unless not doing so is a risk to their re-election chances. 3. You don’t seem to understand Donald Trump. There isn’t a hope in hell Donald Trump resigns in six weeks. Have you not been watching this guy? [QUOTE=Steve MB] There are enough hardcore Trumpets in most red districts to guarantee non-election to any Republican who offends them to the point where they stay home or vote third-party. [/QUOTE] That doesn’t really matter, because you don’t need it to be unanimous. To get an impeachment vote, you only need a simple majority in the House and 2/3rd to convict in the Senate. To flip the House, therefore, you need to get just 24 Republicans out of 241 to flip, which is a small number; there are far, far more than 24 Republican districts where Trumpists are not sufficiently numerous to overwhelm the swing voters in the 2018 midterms if the evidence against Trump is really, really crushing. (I am assuming Democratic unanimity, which is a reasonable prediction of an impeachment vote occurs only after damning evidence comes out.) To get him convicted, you need 67 Senators, so you need to flip 19 Republicans. Again, with damning evidence, you certainly have 19 Senators in sufficiently purple or blue states that they would fear for their jobs if they were openly supporting a criminal. There are GOP Senators in Illinois, Maine, Nevada, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina and many other states that aren’t Christian-solid-red like Idaho who could find themselves in a position where supporting Trump would cost them more votes than it was worth. But the evidence must be very publically damning. It has to make voters angry. We have not seen that yet. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/278 "2017-05-17T13:09:57Z")
Re the phrase “Watergate on meth” > [@MEBuckner](#): > > According to The Google, apparently not actually original to me. (Although I _might_ have independently re-invented the phrase; I dunno.) > > But God damn does it seem apt. Gee, it’s like you _primed the pump_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/279 "2017-05-17T13:10:05Z")
BobLibDem, November 4th, 2014: > [@Last Senate Predictions Before The Polls Close Tonight](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/last-senate-predictions-before-the-polls-close-tonight/703627/15): > > The GOP revolt falls short and McConnell goes down to defeat in Kentucky. McConnell faced Democratic Alison Grimes, the Kentucky Secretary of State, in the general election. He won 56% to 41%, an over 15 percentage points victory and his second-largest margin of victory for any of his senate races. In other words, it wasn’t even close. Also for 2014: You predicted Colorado incumbent Democratic Senator Mark Udall to beat Republican then-Congressman Cory Gardner. Gardner beat incumbent Udall. You predicted Iowa Democrats would retain Tom Harkin’s seat. Democrat Bruce Braley, the Congressman for Iowa’s 1st Congressional District, lost to Republican State Senator Joni Ernst. In Georgia, you predicted a Democratic Senate win, but what happened was that David Perdue, a Republican with no prior elected office to his name, beat Michelle Nunn, a Democrat with no prior elected office to her name (except than Sam Nunn is her father). If I recall correctly, the only one you got right in that thread was Michigan Democratic Congressman Gary Peters winning the Senate seat against Republican Terri Land. Is there any failure point at which you’d say to yourself, “Perhaps my predictive powers are not as keen as I’d thought they were?” Or does the litany of incorrect predictions simply not bother you at all? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406/280 "2017-05-17T13:11:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Did the case of Richard Nixon rise to that level, in your opinion? Do you think he should have been impeached/convicted had he not resigned? Absolutely. Nixon violated several criminal laws. I absolutely agreed he should have been impeached. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-presidency-has-to-end-with-impeachment-right/786406.md?page=15)