# The TRUTH About BratMan007 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 10, 2000, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111 "2000-07-10T14:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pLt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@pLt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pLt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/41 "2000-07-11T01:03:23Z")
I am reasonably new here to SDMB. In fact, I am probably way out of my league in this thread, but I would like to relate some experiences and insights into this discussion. **1. Matching IP Addresses** My two housemates and I are all using the same IP and also we all contribute to SDMB. dpr, Rift and myself. Does this mean we are trolls? No, of course not. But IP matches are circumstantial. **2. What would someone have to gain by doing this?** I have an Arch-nemesis. His name is John Murch and he is my … well, arch-nemesis is the best term I can find. he constantly and regularly interferes in my life by phoning girlfriends, employers, friends, landlords … Just because of a jealousy trip from 3 years ago. the human mind is a fragile thing and it doesn’t take much for people to do silly things. Anyone at Ron’s work could have a motive for taking away from him something that gives him pleasure. My two cents worth ?? He is being framed and I look forward to being one of those that welcome him back when his posting privilages are reinstated. * * * One of the 7860 people personally NOT welcomed by Cecil Adams ---
**Author:** ![tubagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b77776/32.png) [@tubagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tubagirl)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/42 "2000-07-11T01:13:26Z")
All I really ahve to say is this whole saga has crushed me. Espacially so soon after the Wally thing. I really don’t want to leave this board God dammit! I love you guys I just hope that the whole situation can be sorted out and that our ‘real friend’ Bratman can explain this situation in the end. As for “BooBoo” I definitly think it is time to find another message board. We love Brat, but your not making things the easiest for him… sorry ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/43 "2000-07-11T01:27:02Z")
OK, there’s two scenarios floating around here: First, a person joins the boards, waits around for a few months, becomes popular, and gets a lot of attention for the legitimate stuff he posts Then, all of a sudden, he goes troll, gets a new ISP so he can post from home, says that he was in a car crash, and then denies it. I just don’t buy that… First, no troll has a long enough attention span to wait three months before showing their true colors. Secondly, the reason that trolls do what they do is generally believed to be a desire for attention-- BratMan was getting plenty of attention as it is, especially in the past few days. Scenario two: An immature troll, having been foiled at one attempt at harassing the members of the board, comes up with a new scheme to be a hemeroid. In so doing, this troll frames an established member for being his sockpuppet, in the general pattern of “Well, look! That guy got banned and shouldn’t have been; we should stop banning people!” that that troll had previously demonstrated. Further, for his victim, the troll chooses a person that he knows won’t be able to respond for a couple of days, and who is already having some personal problems. This scenario I find all too believable. As to the matching IP numbers, TubaDiva said that it was a number outside of BratMan’s usual range. I would like to know a few things, or at least know that the administrators are considering them, if they’d rather not publish the answers: First, to what ISP does the matching IP correspond? Secondly, which of BratMan’s posts showed that number? And third, on what day of the week was that post? My best guess as to what happened, was that one weekend, Bratman was at a friend’s house, and used their computer to make a post, using some relatively common ISP. Troll comes along, using that same ISP, and coincidentally gets assigned the same dynamic IP address that BratMan got on that day. Speaking of IP numbers, let’s not be too quick to jump on Tigress’ case here on that, either… From what BratMan has said, she uses WebTV, a fairly common national ISP which probably uses dynamic IPs, and her homepage was produced by a template on a free webspace service. We shouldn’t be too surprised that there happens to be another poster with the same IP and a similar homepage. As for them both joining at the same time, again, that’s because of WebTV: They couldn’t join until the upgrade. I just read Drain Bead’s post in the “topic review”, and I’d like to add that standard procedure in a court of law is to assume innocence until guilt is proven. I still have a heck of a big reasonable doubt, so I’m assuming that BratMan is innocent. ---
**Author:** ![little\_bit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@little\_bit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/little_bit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/44 "2000-07-11T01:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Drain Bead \* > > All I heard was that the IP number that matched was not from the IP that Bratman primarily posts from. I was hoping you would point out where you heard this. ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/45 "2000-07-11T01:37:29Z")
Guys, c’mon. This ain’t the pit. Shayna- I hope he didn’t do it. I wouldn’t call him a troll, but my intuition says this is a cry for help or a publicity stunt. However, I don’t think the evidence is damning enough to ban him, yet. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/46 "2000-07-11T01:47:03Z")
I hope you don’t mind if I post a couple of observations. 1. There seems to be two camps: Those who will believe BratMan007 when he provides incontrovertable evidence of his innocence; and those who will condemn BratMan007 when there is incortovertable evidence of his guilt. 2. I have read circumstantial evidence that he is guilty because there are duplicate ISPs. 3. There are people who claim he is guilty because his actions are not the same as the actions those posters would take if they were in the same situation. 4. There are people who claim that BratMan007’s previous posts are not consistent with someone who is guilty of this sham. 5. I believe that the phrase “guilty until proven guilty” should be changed to “guilty _unless_ proven guilty”, as “until” assumes an outcome. ITEM 1: We are not the jury. We are not being given all of the evidence. The moderators are the judge, jury, and executives. ITEM 2: There has been a plausible explanation given as to how posts can be made by different people, and with the same ISP. ITEM 3: People are individuals. Most (or at least many) people will probably not react in the same way other people would react. ITEM 4: Past actions are often an indicator of future ones. ITEM 5: Although I’m not part of a jury, I don’t believe the evidence that has been allowed onto this thread is damning. In a court of law, conviction must be “beyond reasonable doubt” or “by preponerance of the evidence”. In my mind, there is still reasonable doubt. I find it plausible that someone could have used BratMan007’s computer. We trust each other in my office, and most people don’t log off when they go home. Someone can very easily impersonate _me_ when I’m not there. Anyone with a password can log onto anyone else’s computer under their own name, and I believe the ISP would be the same. (I know I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong on that point.) I find it plausible that a vindictive person (such as an unstable girlfriend) could mount a smear campaign. A confederate could account for the different syntax and spelling. One part of my company is a veritable snake-pit. A co-worker with a grudge could also mount an attack. Although I haven’t read many of his posts, BratMan007 has seemed civil enough. I find it difficult to believe that someone could change like that overnight. I am aware of the arguments that have been posted in several threads, both for and against BratMan007. At this point, I don’t believe the prosecution has proved its case. Final thought: Has anyone read _The Monsters are Due on Maple Street_? A neighbourhood is convinced that space invaders have come, and one of the families is alien. They end up fighting amongst themselves and destroying each other. In the end, there are aliens up on a hill. They’ve orchestrated the whole thing without ever having been in the neighbourhood. As _Pogo_ said, “We have seen the enemy, and he is us.” ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/47 "2000-07-11T01:55:56Z")
All right everybody. Over the last ten years I have been involved in many online communities of various sorts. Inevitiably something like this (and similarly, techchick’s situation) has happened in just about every one of them. I would suggest that we all stop pointing fingers, scale back on the histrionics, and give TubaDiva and the rest some time to figure things out. I know that I haved barely reached Satan’s new threshhold for acknowledgement but I definitely have experience in these matters and getting upset is almost always an over-reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/48 "2000-07-11T01:59:57Z")
little\*bit: She heard it, as did most of us, from an Admin of this board. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/49 "2000-07-11T02:04:23Z")
You know, one of the first times I heard about trolls, I was told that their goal was to get the rest of the group arguing amongst themselves. Normally this group doesn’t manage to rise to the bait. Sad to say, this troll has managed to divide us. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/50 "2000-07-11T02:17:50Z")
You know Drain Bead, I was going to type a long reply to your idiocy above, but then I got to this… > [@](#): > > …instead of wasting your time on people who WANT this whole thing to be resolved. You’re right - you’re a waste of my time. And I will be forever grateful that you are not my friend. As the saying goes, “with friends like you…” ---
**Author:** ![dpr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8797f3/32.png) [@dpr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dpr)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/51 "2000-07-11T02:18:32Z")
I agree with Chronos. It doesn’t seem right. Actually nearly all of this seems odd and fishy. However, I refuse to jump to conclusions and - more importantly - I will not put myself in a position where I will let doubt and uncertainty be my prime motivators. I posted to Rochelle yesterday despite the fact that I thougth the post was oddly written and it rang a few alarm bells. Why? Because there was a chance (and it doesn’t matter how slim or large) she was genuine and therefore needed help. We can’t second-guess when people may be in need. Yes, it’s about trust - and often trusting a stranger. But if we let suspicion replace acceptance then what kind of people are we? Certainly not the sort of person I aspire to. My friends (and aforementioned housemates) often accuse me of being too trusting but I will continue to believe in people. “Treat people as if they were what they should be, and you help them become what they are capable of becoming.” - Johannn von Goethe I hope bratman is innocent and will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. I trust the mods to get to the bottom of this mess, and hope we can get on with our cyber-lives. Peace all. ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/52 "2000-07-11T02:19:04Z")
Whoever did this to Bratman would need to have access to his computer; have some sort of reason to get him in trouble; and have enough experience on this board to know that Bratman would get caught. It seems kind of far-fetched. Not to mention, people who aren’t on the board don’t usually understand how it could be important to people who are. So an enemy would be much more likely to do something IRL. This all makes it seem like Bratman probably did it. On the other hand, Bratman had to have known he would get caught sooner or later. So I can’t see **why** he would do it, it’s just not logical. So, based on the circumstances, I think he did it. And based on what little I know about him, I don’t think he did. I guess when it comes right down to it, I’m not sure what to think. I think I’ll stop thinking. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/53 "2000-07-11T02:19:33Z")
Further investigation has proven what he has written to be verifiable and truthful. It’s our belief that someone in his office decided to play a joke on him – and on us. The IP numbers in question resolve to BratMan’s employer. Yeah, it’s not very funny to any of us, but that’s the nature of practical jokes. Somewhere in St. Louis some jerk is laughing his ass off at having flimflammed a big bunch of people and gotten his buddy in trouble. BratMan’s girlfriend will not be returning to the board and is not a factor in any of this. Please welcome him back to the board – and if you work in an office with other people, watch your back. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![lswote](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lswote/32/5737_2.png) [@lswote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lswote)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/54 "2000-07-11T02:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by little_bit \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Drain Bead \* > > > > All I heard was that the IP number that matched was not from the IP that Bratman primarily posts from. > > I was hoping you would point out where you heard this. \*\* [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=30333) you go **little\*bit**. Look for **TubaDiva** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/55 "2000-07-11T02:28:15Z")
If it’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that every time I think I have things figured out, I turn out to be wrong. Tuba - Thanks to you and the mods for sorting this thing out. BratMan - I probably owe you an apology, so let me be the first to say I’m sorry. : hangs head in shame : ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/56 "2000-07-11T02:37:03Z")
I’m glad to hear it. Welcome back Bratman! I was always behind you, they made me say that bad stuff. Just kidding. I know you’re innocent now, and I’m sorry I ever thought otherwise. It truly was nothing personal. As I said earlier, I didn’t think you would be so dumb to do that. But the evidence suggested otherwise. Whatever, what’s important now is that Boo-boo’s back! And healthy as ever! ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/57 "2000-07-11T02:37:03Z")
> [@](#): > > My two housemates and I are all using the same IP and also we all contribute to SDMB. dpr, Rift and myself. Right. So, is it fair to say that, if weird posts that framed you as a troll and a sockpuppet began to appear from your house, you would be able to figure out who was doing it in short order? Checking times of the posts, etc.? And would it help if you were a veteran with military intelligence training? BratMan’s one attempt at an explanation was that it must have been someone from his shop, doing this at a time he was away to make a joke. How would this co-worker know that this would be a big deal, or a particular way to get at him? Wouldn’t a co-worker, from the evidence they see (him occasionally talking about posting here, him occasionally sharing a funny thread) just think it was a site he occasionally visited for recreational purposes? Hell, isn’t that _true_? So, why would a person who wanted to get back at him for something - or even play a joke on him - expend the kind of energy that would be necessary to do this, of all things? ---
**Author:** ![Frannie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Frannie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frannie)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/58 "2000-07-11T02:42:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > **Speaking of IP numbers, let’s not be too quick to jump on Tigress’ case here on that, either… From what BratMan has said, she uses WebTV, a fairly common national ISP which probably uses dynamic IPs, and her homepage was produced by a template on a free webspace service. We shouldn’t be too surprised that there happens to be another poster with the same IP and a similar homepage. As for them both joining at the same time, again, that’s because of WebTV: They couldn’t join until the upgrade.** The homepages _are_ very similar, yes. I’ve already conceded that I didn’t know anything about the webspace service. _After_ making that statement, I learned how and why two homepages created there could look similar. However, after reading the content of the homepages and reading the posts of both Boo Boo’s Tigress and Randy Roshelle, there is no doubt that they’re the same person. I don’t want to go on and on (I’ve already done that once today), but look at the homepages again and read the threads I mentioned in my first post. There is no doubt (OK, OK, OK, _little_ doubt) – well, in _my_ li’l mind, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/59 "2000-07-11T02:48:30Z")
Let me be the second. And let me also be the first to say that I am SO glad that this all worked out the way it did. As I said earlier, I’d much rather be the one making the apology than be the friend who felt betrayed and stupid if it turned out otherwise. And seeing as I didn’t have any sort of relationship with Bratman other than “Oh, that’s the guy who posted that thing in MPSIMS the other day,” I wouldn’t have had to be that person in this situation. So hopefully we can all go back to normal again. I only have two more things to say. Thing the first is to who did this. Take this unlubricated football and shove it up your ass. And I’m not talking about the American kind. This one’s one of Coldfire’s. Thing the second is to everyone, and it’s kinda hard to figure out how to word this. I’ve been a part of this board, on and off, for three and a half years now. I’d imagine everyone who reads often enough knows a good bit about the unessential details of my life by this point. A lot of people are like that. I could name, for example, the town that Kelli lives in, where she works, her friends and her family relatively easily. So I get the feeling that a lot of people are going to be more cautious about what they have to say about themselves from here on out, for fear that it might somehow be exploited. Please don’t. The good parts of this board don’t just involve answering questions and debating. A good portion of the sense of community we get is due to the sharing (and sometimes clashing!) of both emotions and personality. When I read things like what Kelli said (sorry to be using you as an example so much, but I’m tired and can’t really think of anyone else), where she’s afraid to offer sympathy because of what happened, it makes me pretty sad. Because to a certain extent, things like that are what makes this board a good place to visit. We CARE. In sum, I’m glad this all worked out the way I wanted it to, and I hope we don’t learn the wrong things from this experience. Welcome back, Bratman! ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111/60 "2000-07-11T02:51:23Z")
My sincere apologies to you, Mr. Brat. If your explanation was good enough for our humble TubaDiva, it’s good enough for me. If, however, you are able to help us make sense of this as more information becomes available to you, I think that would be appreciated by many. If it seems I was particularly quick to turn on you, I hope you understand it’s nothing personal. If you get the chance, please let whoever did this know that, in light of what’s happened here in the last four weeks, their actions were beyond low. Again, apologies offered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-bratman007/25111.md?page=4)