# The truth about "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905 "2011-08-08T02:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/181 "2011-08-09T02:24:56Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Punk’s do it yourself attitude was laudable, but it’s absurd to sneer at musical technique. Technique is an enabler, it opens up musical possibilities. Yes, some musicians have been guilty of self-indulgence, no question. Add virtuosity to soul (for lack of a better term), and you get something like [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZHlgoYmJM&feature=relmfu). You guys are just hearing what you want to hear, or I guess reading what you want to read. I’m not sneering at technique, I’m sneering at noodling, because it’s boring. How many times can I say “they’re great players but I hate listening to them” before you actually listen? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/182 "2011-08-09T02:35:29Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lgCZN1rU5co/maxresdefault.jpg "The Specials - Gangsters (Official Music Video) [HD]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgCZN1rU5co) Real gangster time ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/183 "2011-08-09T02:37:53Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > For the last fucking time, there IS no objective way to measure music, and I never claimed to have one, or to be any kind of authority on the subject. If all you wanted was to express your opinion about certain genres of music, you could have posted a thread in Cafe Society. It was you who chose to express yourself in the form of a flame in the B. B. Q. Pit and you did in terms that criticized people, their intelligence, and their taste. If you had simply expressed yourself in terms of the music, things would have gone much differently. On top of that, the way you expressed yourself made you come off as exactly the kind if hipster music snob that annoys the shit out of people. Those are the main reasons you’ve been met with hostility and I for one don’t really believe it caught you by surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/184 "2011-08-09T02:46:33Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > I’m not gay What the fuck does your sexual orientation have to do with anything? (Anyone else think that Robert Plant was fucking sexy back in the day? _listens to “The Lemon Song”_) ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/185 "2011-08-09T02:48:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If all you wanted was to express your opinion about certain genres of music, you could have posted a thread in Cafe Society. It was you who chose to express yourself in the form of a flame in the B. B. Q. Pit and you did in terms that criticized people, their intelligence, and their taste. If you had simply expressed yourself in terms of the music, things would have gone much differently. On top of that, the way you expressed yourself made you come off as exactly the kind if hipster music snob that annoys the shit out of people. Those are the main reasons you’ve been met with hostility and I for one don’t really believe it caught you by surprise. What surprised me was not the negative reaction itself but rather the level of hypocrisy and lack of coherence in the responses - for such a patronizing bunch, I’m pretty shocked at how many of you fail to see the contradictions in your own logic, or choose to repeat each other with the insistence of a pig running at a fence, or to make broad and erroneous claims based on faulty or fabricated evidence. And anyway, even if I weren’t surprised, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t react. Case in point: when I point out the obvious double standards employed by responders in this thread, there is silence. Why should passing judgment on a supposed “hipster” because of the bands he listens to be defensible when doing so for “classic rock fans” (a term I have never even used) apparently is not? Before anyone accuses me of hypocrisy, I want to point out that I don’t take issue with someone making that judgment per se (though I may feel inclined to try to correct it), because I wanted a frivolous argument and by God I got one, but if I am to be lambasted for generalizing then such treatment should be applied with the fairness you all accuse me of lacking. ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/186 "2011-08-09T02:50:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What the fuck does your sexual orientation have to do with anything? > (Anyone else think that Robert Plant was fucking sexy back in the day? _listens to “The Lemon Song”_) Nothing, but another distinguished member of our little community, with the help of dubious logic, brought it into the discussion. I didn’t think my economic background mattered either, but one brilliant psychoanalyst on this board managed to frame all of my statements in terms of it, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/187 "2011-08-09T03:04:12Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > What surprised me was not the negative reaction itself but rather the level of hypocrisy and lack of coherence in the responses - for such a patronizing bunch, I’m pretty shocked at how many of you fail to see the contradictions in your own logic, or choose to repeat each other with the insistence of a pig running at a fence, or to make broad and erroneous claims based on faulty or fabricated evidence. And anyway, even if I weren’t surprised, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t react. Now you’re being disingenuous. On the one hand you cry that you’re merely expressing your opinion and on the other hand you are accusing others of logical fallacy. You walked into the Pit braying like a jackass and you’re being treated like one. You really have no room to complain about hypocrisy or unfairness. Again, if you wanted to have any kind of reasonable discussion about music, you would have posted in Cafe Society. You started a bar brawl by calling out “ex-hippies, get over yourselves” and now you’re complaining about being subjected to a double standard? That’s just pathetic. (FYI the proportion of people at the SDMB who are old enough to be ex-hippies is actually quite small.) ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/188 "2011-08-09T03:15:29Z")
I asked to be ripped apart, and I certainly have been. Doesn’t mean I don’t get to weigh in myself. And it _is_ a double standard. I’m not complaining that other people are making generalizations because yes, that is what I did - but then, what’s the point of getting on my case for generalizing when they just do the same thing themselves? Why should one group be judged and not another? And it’s also true that responders were passing judgment on me based on fallacious logic, and I felt obliged to point that out to them. You’re right - if I wanted to have a reasonable discussion about music I wouldn’t have posted it here. I’ve done that. What I posted was a rant, not even directed at anyone on this message board, but about the “outside world” as per the rules of the Pit. As stated in the OP, I knew people would disagree with me, or find my language hyperbolic. But if someone’s going to make an assumption about my personal life based on the opinions expressed in the OP, then that’s faulty logic, and I’m gonna call them on it. Also, the American Analog Set totally fucking destroy. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/189 "2011-08-09T05:31:53Z")
I think it’s more the radio format, itself, that’s the problem, than the actual musicians. IME the stations only play a limited selection of more commercial hits from the artists that fall into the CR timespan. So for instance, if you listen to the typical CR station for a few days, you’ll be sure tohear The Doors’ “Touch Me” and “Love Her Madly”. But you won’t hear “Journey To The End Of The Night”, or any of the long versions of “Light My Fire”, or “Texas Radio”. That stuff simply isn’t commercial enough. So while I can’t stand classic rock as a radio format, it doesn’t accurately characterize the full range of what was happening in music at that time. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/190 "2011-08-09T05:43:51Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > But you won’t hear “Journey To The End Of The Night”, or any of the long versions of “Light My Fire”, or “Texas Radio”. That stuff simply isn’t commercial enough. So while I can’t stand classic rock as a radio format, it doesn’t accurately characterize the full range of what was happening in music at that time. As AOR evolved into classic rock, the target audience also changed, from men in the teenage-to-early middle age demographic to working class men in their 40s and 50s. Consider the presence of “work force blocks”, “employee of the day” contests, and the like. The cerebral stuff that used to be a staple of AOR – Pink Floyd, ELP, Moody Blues and the like – is now relegated to late nights, if it even airs. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/191 "2011-08-09T06:57:03Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > I asked to be ripped apart, and I certainly have been. Doesn’t mean I don’t get to weigh in myself. > > And it _is_ a double standard. I’m not complaining that other people are making generalizations because yes, that is what I did - but then, what’s the point of getting on my case for generalizing when they just do the same thing themselves? Why should one group be judged and not another? Because one side was talking about how much they hate something, and the other side was talking about how much they love something. Can’t you see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/192 "2011-08-09T07:04:42Z")
The Clash do not suck. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/193 "2011-08-09T08:31:47Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > See, this is the double standard I don’t understand. No one’s calling this guy out for making objective statements about music, and “everyone who wants to pretend they like music has a hard on for Slint” is blatantly judgmental of Slint fans, but why is no one jumping down his throat? It’s a matter of tone and of being the OP. “this guy” casually posted something midthread that sounds like a bunch of offhand opinions. You specifically started a thread in order to inform (and flame) us, the losers, of your Righteous Knowledge of How It Is. When you grow up a bit more you’ll learn to control your tone, or at least learn how to have fun by being bombastic and then enjoying the fistfight that follows instead of whining like you are now. > [@](#): > > Someone pointed out before that a lack of “I think” language serves as a rhetorical intensifier, and that’s all I meant by it. That’d be me, but you aren’t getting it. Using tough rhetoric invites robust responses. You set the tone. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/194 "2011-08-09T08:46:16Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > You guys are just hearing what you want to hear, or I guess reading what you want to read. I’m not sneering at technique, I’m sneering at noodling, because it’s boring. Then you’ve constructed a strawman, if you think everything they do is noodling. > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > What surprised me was not the negative reaction itself but rather the level of hypocrisy and lack of coherence in the responses… Now you’re just whining. When you kick off a thread saying an entire genre sucks and it’s leading figures are uninteresting wankers, people aren’t going to bring their A debate game to the table, they are going to bitchslap you. You may not realise it, but what you’ve posted is a classic parody of the punk rockers viewpoint. If you want a reasonable discussion, post something in cafe society and you’ll probably find takers. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/195 "2011-08-09T09:14:10Z")
> [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](#): > > Rancid Sucks, and the Clash Sucked Too Nah, we get it, just can’t call anyone by that band name. RIP Seth Putnam. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/196 "2011-08-09T09:17:44Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > I’m anything but delicate, pal. But these folks came to this boxing match ready to wrestle. Hey-o! You step into the Octagon, you got to know how to fight on the ground. So why don’t you listen to Buckethead? Too busy worshiping the Raveonettes? Maybe a little Heather Alexander? Oooh. I know. You’re a huge fan of Kenny G. You just want to blow your alto sax all day. ---
**Author:** ![orchidcolors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@orchidcolors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orchidcolors)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/197 "2011-08-09T11:56:02Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s a matter of tone and of being the OP. “this guy” casually posted something midthread that sounds like a bunch of offhand opinions. You specifically started a thread in order to inform (and flame) us, the losers, of your Righteous Knowledge of How It Is. That’s the part that gets to me. It’s the notion that I, one of the unwashed masses, cannot possibly understand what good music is, because I dare to listen to something somebody else has called classic rock. I thought that I bought music to enjoy. Turns out I have to wait for people like the OP to sign the permission slip first. :rolleyes: > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > It’s a romance invented by baby boomers I am not caught up in some sort of romance about “how good it used to be”. Every genre in every decade has had its share of complete horse manure. But I get to decide what I enjoy. If what I enjoy happens to fit your idea of complete horse manure, then so be it. How, exactly, is this hurting you? :dubious: > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > But ex-hippies, get the fuck over yourselves. I really don’t know where this idea comes from. Do you really think that the only people who care about these bands are baby boomers searching for lost glory? I don’t think you realize this, but being a hippie or not doesn’t matter at all. I would never buy an album because some halfwit at Rolling Stone said to. I do not need to “get over” myself. I have merely bought albums that I wanted to because I wanted to own the music myself, because I enjoyed it. I am not about to change that because classic rock ticks you off somehow. > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Also, all the classic “guitar heroes?” Absolute wankers. Jimmy Paige? Eric Clapton? Ritchie Blackmore? Keith Richards? Stevie Ray Vaughn? Pete Townshend? Joe Perry? Total fucking wankers. Skilled? Sure. Interesting? Not even a little. What is an interesting guitar solo for you? If you say it’s just an emotional response, then why is it so hard for you to think that someone else might be praising, say Hendrix, for the same exact reason? If it’s the shape of the melody, then think beyond your own opinions and realize that someone else might want to hear something different than you do. That’s what adults do. > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Also, if it weren’t for “Yellow Submarine,” _Revolver_ would be the only Beatles album that’s good at the wall through. As it stands, none of them are. While I’m at it, Queen sucked, the Eagles sucked, Cream sucked, Led Zeppelin sucked, and by the 70s, the Who sucked too. You’ve not given very many reasons for why this genre ticks you off so much. Is someone holding a gun to your head and making you listen to them? Does it make you feel better as a human being to say that something sucks? Does it give you validation? > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > How many times can I say “they’re great players but I hate listening to them” before you actually listen? Had you said that in the OP, far fewer people would be ripping you apart right now. As it is, your tone is what got people upset. It’s also what got you an accusation of being in middle school, because adults don’t scream about how Band X sucks without some sort of supporting statement. No one has to agree with you. You don’t have to agree with me, either. However, if you say Band X sucks without telling me why you think so, then I’m going to think that you’re just fishing for a childish fight, and not an adult discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/198 "2011-08-09T12:09:23Z")
> [@orchidcolors](#): > > As it is, your tone is what got people upset. It’s also what got you an accusation of being in middle school, because adults don’t scream about how Band X sucks without some sort of supporting statement. You also come off as the kind if person who gets all work up about “musical rivalries” like Motley Crüe/Quiet Riot or Blur/Oasis. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/199 "2011-08-09T12:24:54Z")
> [@orchidcolors](#): > > I am not caught up in some sort of romance about “how good it used to be”. Every genre in every decade has had its share of complete horse manure. But I get to decide what I enjoy. If what I enjoy happens to fit your idea of complete horse manure, then so be it. How, exactly, is this hurting you? :dubious: Well, in theory, if I ridicule classic rock enough, people might be too embarrassed to admit liking it, and therefore stations might think it unpopular and stop playing that format so much or change the format. Unfortunately, the world doesn’t work that way, and if anything, ridicule makes you like the stuff you used to like even more. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/200 "2011-08-09T12:46:04Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You do know only two of those bands could be realistically classified as punk, right? Which two would those be? I’ll just go back to grumbling about kids and listening to SLF. > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Also, all the classic “guitar heroes?” Absolute wankers. … Stevie Ray Vaughn?.. Total fucking wankers. Skilled? Sure. Interesting? Not even a little. I’d respond, but I am too busy attempting to comfort the Baby Jesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=11)