# The truth about "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905 "2011-08-08T02:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/241 "2011-08-10T06:38:26Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Why bother? If you want to use the term that loosely, Cabaret Voltaire was punk rock. It’s a loose term. Anyway, it’s not nearly so difficult to make a case for Sonic Youth being a punk band, and neither of those things are relevant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![SomeWhen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@SomeWhen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeWhen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/242 "2011-08-10T06:47:25Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > For the record (derp!), I don’t think it was fans of Elvis necessarily who were burning Beatles (not Beetles, just sayin’) records - in fact, they were probably the same people who not too long before were burning Elvis records for _their_ suggestive content. … I am impressed by your knowledge of the period, and you are right. But I thought I remembered seeing on the news when the Beatles first came to America a corresponding news item about how not everyone had Beatlemania, that some people thought the “British invasion” was somehow an attack on “American values,” for instance because of the longish hair. This was not the same as the later incident provoked by John Lennon’s ill-favored remark about Jesus. I cannot find any mention of this from Googling; I was fairly young, perhaps my memory is embroidered. None-the-less, you might be interested in glancing at this web page I did find. It somewhat resembles what I yet seem to remember, but is very far fetched and “way out there”: [http://www.illuminati-news.com/rock\_and\_mc.htm](http://www.illuminati-news.com/rock_and_mc.htm) “…the scurrilous Ed Sullivan who had been coached by the conspirators as to the role he was to play” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/243 "2011-08-10T06:53:54Z")
> [@SomeWhen](#): > > I am impressed by your knowledge of the period, and you are right. But I thought I remembered seeing on the news when the Beatles first came to America a corresponding news item about how not everyone had Beatlemania, that some people thought the “British invasion” was somehow an attack on “American values,” for instance because of the longish hair. This was not the same as the later incident provoked by John Lennon’s ill-favored remark about Jesus. I cannot find any mention of this from Googling; I was fairly young, perhaps my memory is embroidered. None-the-less, you might be interested in glancing at this web page I did find. It somewhat resembles what I yet seem to remember, but is very far fetched and “way out there”: > [Beatles, Rock'n'roll & Mind Control](http://www.illuminati-news.com/rock_and_mc.htm) > “…the scurrilous Ed Sullivan who had been coached by the conspirators as to the role he was to play” :eek: Ha! Erm, I hadn’t heard the conspiracy theory angle before, and I somehow doubt it was a very popular idea even at the time… I think it’s more likely that the Beatles’ “attack on American values” was their concern over the legions of young American girls dying to throw themselves at the moptopped lads. Edit: After some more reading… “12 atonal music?” Is this guy for real? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/244 "2011-08-10T10:15:17Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > …While I’m at it, Queen sucked, the Eagles sucked, Cream sucked, Led Zeppelin sucked, and by the 70s, the Who sucked too… Oh well…(heavy sigh) if we must be accurate, Queen were never at the top and shouldn’t even feature in your list. An interesting and clever glam rock band but second tier. Still, A Night At The Opera remains a definitive rock album. The Eagles…good effort, Joe Walsh moved ahead better on his own, so I sort of grant you that one. But the rest? Cream and Blind Faith were incandescent bands, totally alone in their milieu. Clapton did ok afterwards but he never reached the heights again. Led Zeppelin. The first 4 albums are without peer. I cannot think of another band since which equalled their technical competence coupled with richness of sound. Some would say U2 but they are less than a shadow of Zeppelin. The Who. This bands originality and electric stage presence plus musical legacy speaks for itself. I’ll agree that their inspiration peaked at Whos Next and Quadraphenia but that’s saying a helleva lot. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/245 "2011-08-10T11:16:31Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Okay, let me clear up something that I’ve realized might not have been clear in the OP (although I have tried to bring up this point, to no avail): **The original rant was not directed at anybody who may have actually seen it, i.e. anybody on this board.** Having said that, I can’t help it if a lot of you took the post very personally, although I don’t see why anyone would because nobody has so far tried to identify themselves as “ex-hippies” or anything else. > > I will reiterate, though: I’m not trying to elevate my taste above anyone else’s; I’m not trying to tell anyone else what they “should” be listening to (you’ll notice that issue doesn’t come up in the OP, and actually it’s been responders who, taking my directionless rant, have seen fit to tell ME what I should think is good); if I had truly desired to swing my “musical appreciation dick” around then I _would_ have mentioned some of those “hipster” bands I’m into in the OP (someone asked me which bands I thought had “interesting guitar arrangements,” so Fugazi and Slint came to mind). If you’ll notice, the second sentence of the OP contains the words, **“I don’t expect anyone to agree with me,”** so anyone who thinks I’m trying to preach or impose my will is reading selectively because they _want and choose_ to feel antagonized by this thread. If it helps you hypersensitive assholes, just put an “I think” before all of the supposedly inflammatory statements I made and the problem will vanish. > > “Classic Rock” - note the quotes, both here and in every mention of it in the OP, indicating the sort of music that gets reshuffled and resold on Time Life compilations every year - _is_ a romance. Did I ever imply that _all the music from that period_ was rubbish? No, and I never would. Does every other generation do the same stupid thing? Of course, and I never denied it, nor would I ever deny it. The punks do it, Golden Age hip hoppers do it, shit, even 90s kids like me are doing it. Being a part of the outside world, the “classic rock” myth as promoted by radio DJs and (okay I’ll bite, you vultures) **those certain members of the baby boomer generation, who think that because they experimented with drugs and hung out at “be-ins” that every generation hence owes them something** was eligible for a Pitting. Does that encompass the whole generation (the whole hippie culture, even), or the whole body of music produced before 1974? Fucking of course not. If I had said, “Classic rock sucks, punk rock forever!” that would be one thing, but I didn’t. I said later on that I like punk music, and you folks generously took it from there. Not my fault. > > Also, you can tell me I don’t know anything about music by putting Stevie Ray Vaughn in that list, but his only relationship with the other guitarists mentioned is that he is also a deified guitarist whom I find utterly uninteresting. > > At the end of the day, I have a view more along the lines of the one expressed by **rogerbox** , that NO one generation should feel they have an excuse to hold their achievements (in this case, specifically music) above any other. Jimi Hendrix is not better than Tom Verlaine simply for the fact that he is Jimi Hendrix, and that he came before. If you like his playing more, whatever - I don’t. His skill and influence have no bearing on that, and they don’t need to. > > Anyway, I’m not the one with a superiority complex, despite the concerted effort on the part of most people present to project one on to me. It’s true that I think all these bands suck, and that no one needs to hear “Born to be Wild” again, but obviously not everyone agrees with me. That doesn’t automatically mean I think I’m God’s gift to man. The ones with superiority complexes are the ones who make the effort to seek out every way in which they can be offended by someone who says something they disagree with, expound on them, and then make condescending judgments or assumptions about them based on little but the opinion itself. I used some strong language, sure, but if that makes you feel like you have to consult me when deciding what music to listen to, that’s your problem, not mine. > > Two more miscellaneous disagreements: Sonic Youth are definitely a punk band, and music doesn’t always have a message, nor does whether or not that message is understood necessarily determine whether someone enjoys it. tl;dr. Listen, your childish OP brought this on, and now, strangely enough, you’re burning text trying to reframe your position. You’re inefficient. There are bits of ideas about music tossed about within your spin. Please consider picking off one or two of those and starting over in new threads. You did that with the Punk question in Cafe Society. How about a nice, warm discussion about Stevie Ray on guitar? 😉 I’d be interested in hearing you make your case, but in a simple enough thread that it doesn’t skitter off the rails. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/246 "2011-08-10T14:06:34Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Ace job exposing yourself as a homophobe, champ. And for the record, I don’t like Justin Bieber, but if I did it wouldn’t mean a thing to this thread. Also, **El\_Kabong** was right, it is “Jimmy Page.” My bad. > > Guess what? I like punk music. I like music with interesting guitar parts - note the use of the word “interesting” instead of “complicated” or “elaborate.” So I’m not interested in Eric Clapton climaxing all over his blues scale - I want my guitars to have some depth. Television, Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, Slint, Fugazi, and hey guess what, I grew up in the 90s, so I like blink182 and Third Eye Blind also. Go nuts on that one, gang! Aha, you mentioned the magic two words (Sonic Youth) that identifies you as a tone-deaf anarchistic moron who would say Shakespeare is shitty because it uses fancy old fashioned words. Sonic Youth are horrible by any standard. Just because people have feelings and interesting thoughts does not translate into them creating meaningful music. You gripe about the likes of Hendrix,etc, yet you tolerate the needless dissonance and distortion of crap like Sonic Youth? Not that you care, but you are dead to me. Musicians need some technique, hell, even the Sex Pistols (who FWIW I like) had basic chops. And by the way, the crap you like was chosen and pushed to your radio stations by the same bunch of suits that pushed out our music on us. Your argument is “this is the stuff I grew up with and it’s better than yours”. Ooofah! ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/247 "2011-08-10T15:04:07Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > YouTube is awesome: > > [See No Evil](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7L0IYPXKj8) > [Friction](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwrCUEMl76U&feature=related) > [Venus](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3d5ZdE4vY) Not bad at all… worthy of further investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/248 "2011-08-10T15:15:34Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > [Venus](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3d5ZdE4vY) Gaaaah! . . . . . . . Goddamn, that is an ugly, ugly set of mugs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/249 "2011-08-10T15:22:55Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Listen, guys. I know this is probably a generational thing, and I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. But I just can’t take it anymore. “Classic rock” sucks. It just sucks. It’s a romance invented by baby boomers who want their kids to believe that their generation was the last one that cared and that was able to accomplish anything (boy, do those videos of Woodstock make me believe in a nation of youth united for change! Fuck Woodstock.), and so they tell their kids that “the music meant something back then” and “they don’t make it like that anymore,” while they play the same six fucking songs on every “classic rock” station 24/7 around the stupid country. Here’s a tip, DJs: **No one ever needs to hear “Born to Be Wild,” ever again, for the rest of human existence. Not once. Ever.** > > Also, all the classic “guitar heroes?” Absolute wankers. Jimmy Paige? Eric Clapton? Ritchie Blackmore? Keith Richards? Stevie Ray Vaughn? Pete Townshend? Joe Perry? Total fucking wankers. Skilled? Sure. Interesting? Not even a little. > > Also, if it weren’t for “Yellow Submarine,” _Revolver_ would be the only Beatles album that’s good at the wall through. As it stands, none of them are. While I’m at it, Queen sucked, the Eagles sucked, Cream sucked, Led Zeppelin sucked, and by the 70s, the Who sucked too. Also, fuck wah-wah pedals. > > Yeah, all this music was very very important, and I’m not going to be so foolish as to deny that. But ex-hippies, get the fuck over yourselves. > > Okay everyone, rip me apart now. I just really needed to get that out. There’ll probably be more as I think of it, too. Its all kind of relative don’t you think? I am hard pressed to find any modern music that is more meaningful than folk music during the cultural revolution and hip hop more recently. If you want interesting music, then 99% of musicians are going to be one hit wonders if they have any music that meets that criteria at all. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/250 "2011-08-10T15:33:22Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > It’s a loose term. Anyway, it’s not nearly so difficult to make a case for Sonic Youth being a punk band, and neither of those things are relevant to this thread. It’s pretty difficult since they don’t sound anything LIKE punk, I’ve never heard anyone seriously try to define punk as who you hang out with before. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/251 "2011-08-10T16:39:25Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Television’s Marquee Moon is generally considered one of the top ten albums of all time. I’m not so much a fan, myself. Same here. I think I really should like it, considering everything else I like, and every couple of years or so I give it another go but something just doesn’t connect with me. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/252 "2011-08-10T17:40:37Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > **Television** are one of my favorite bands. You find me a child who could play through the solo **on “Marquee Moon.”** > > There’s a difference between being talented and being a wanker, and talent can’t be measured in pure technical skill. THAT’S your example of “good” music? Irritating repetitive guitar riff, disco level drum beat (as a drummer friend of mine calls the “pom pom pom BOOM”), and a singer who sounds like the offspring of Weird Al Yankovic and Tom Petty. Oh yeah, that’s SO much better than Ozzie. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/253 "2011-08-10T17:58:45Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > THAT’S your example of “good” music? Irritating repetitive guitar riff, disco level drum beat (as a drummer friend of mine calls the “pom pom pom BOOM”), and a singer who sounds like the offspring of Weird Al Yankovic and Tom Petty. > > Oh yeah, that’s SO much better than Ozzie. It is, but just because solo Ozzie sucks so hard. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/254 "2011-08-10T18:15:31Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > YouTube is awesome: > > [See No Evil](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7L0IYPXKj8) > [Friction](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwrCUEMl76U&feature=related) > [Venus](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3d5ZdE4vY) Lead singer sounds like Robert Plant. Full circle, and all. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/255 "2011-08-10T18:44:34Z")
Anybody who listens to anything other than Gregorian chants sucks and doesn’t really know what music is all about. I listen to nothing but Gregorian chants. When anybody else talks about their music I make sure that I tell them that their music is overrated and doesn’t need to be played anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/256 "2011-08-10T19:20:23Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Anybody who listens to anything other than Gregorian chants sucks and doesn’t really know what music is all about. > > I listen to nothing but Gregorian chants. When anybody else talks about their music I make sure that I tell them that their music is overrated and doesn’t need to be played anymore. I just bang two rocks together. It’s terribly authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/257 "2011-08-10T19:41:11Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I just bang two rocks together. It’s terribly authentic. Meh. I like the early stuff, but the later rock-banging was just derivative and bad. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/258 "2011-08-10T19:42:09Z")
I liked it better when people just banged their heads together–no rocks required. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/259 "2011-08-10T19:49:20Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I liked it better when people just banged their heads together–no rocks required. Snob. There’s always some filthy deconstructionist in every crowd. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/260 "2011-08-10T19:56:25Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I liked it better when people just banged their heads together–no rocks required. So - at the beginning was headbanging? Sounds about right. [Let’s watch a couple of masters in action.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4azmy1FQIkw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=14)