# The truth about "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905 "2011-08-08T02:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/302 "2011-08-11T21:00:58Z")
Also, while I’m at it, care to define “relevant” in this context? Would it still be relevant music if it did nothing except make you want to shake your ass? I say yes, since the desire to move to music is timeless and constant. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/303 "2011-08-11T21:11:20Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Would it still be relevant music if it did nothing except make you want to shake your ass? Some theorists have even postulated that it don’t mean a thing if it _ain’t_ got that swing. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/304 "2011-08-11T21:33:00Z")
> [@BigShooter](#): > > Ok, so I listened to Marquee Moon all the way through. I’ve never really listened to Television much before, but I enjoyed the track. However, coming from a guitar players perspective, I really didn’t see anything too difficult or unique about the solo. Actually, to my ears, I hear a lot of Neil Young (gasp!! - classic rock - NO!!!) influence in the guitarist’s playing. Well, I was going to listen to it, but now… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/305 "2011-08-11T21:41:14Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Well, I was going to listen to it, but now… I think of Television as if the Talking Heads played proggier-style songs. **pulykamell** , as always, nice breakdown of what you are hearing in their music. \*\*BigShooter \*\*- everything you say makes sense from a technical standpoint. I think they are excellent and love Marquee Moon - entirely worth the investment of time, IMHO. But, per **BigShooter** , they are certainly influenced by the guitar playing and music styles before them…even if the OP doesn’t want to deal with that… ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/306 "2011-08-11T21:48:55Z")
Hell, it’s incredibly obvious by his choice of gear and musical phrasing that Tom Verlaine was heavily, heavily influenced by the surf rock guitarists. ---
**Author:** ![BigShooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f07891/32.png) [@BigShooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigShooter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/307 "2011-08-11T21:59:41Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > That doesn’t mean it’s relevant any more, or even good by today’s standards. Of course it’s relevant! The very fact that every musician is influenced by what came before them MAKES classic rock relevant. About the only way you can objectively say that music is “better” today than 40 years ago is in regards to the sound quality - and even that may be arguable. Saying that all good music begins with Television, or in 1979, or whatever, and anything before that is crap is just retarded. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/308 "2011-08-12T05:56:45Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It is, but just because solo Ozzie sucks so hard. Well yeah, but I meant Classic Ozzie. 😃 (I’m not sure if it’s because he’s solo though, or because he’s doddering and old ). ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/309 "2011-08-12T06:20:00Z")
I’ve made the point repeatedly that I’m not trying to indict a whole period of time, and that I’m also aware that the music I’m railing against DOES have its own merits that I don’t identify with. It’s the false romance that surrounds “classic rock” that pisses me off. I _know_ that no one style or period of music is inherently better than any other, whether I think it sucks or that it’s genius - that’s the _point._ For a group so apt to complain about strawmen, I sure see a lot of folks wearing overalls around here. Or perhaps brainlessness. I hate to repeat myself, but **if anybody were actually paying attention to my comments, in the OP or otherwise, they would know that most of their attacks are groundless.** All this stuff about how I think “my music” is better than anyone’s, or that I don’t appreciate/respect/understand talent or influence, or that I don’t accept the fact that stuff I like might be influenced by stuff I don’t like, is based on selective reading and misinterpretation. At any rate, you’re all just repeating yourselves at this point, and I also. I’m content to let this thread die. Case in point: I say the Clash sucked. _You_ may be saying something different. Two different opinions, and neither one is in any danger from the other. Neither one is meant to be interpreted factually, because to make such a statement and expect it to be accepted as such is ridiculous. We all know this. You’re all perfectly welcome to like the music I think is shitty with no complaints from me, and I clearly like a lot of stuff that you may think is garbage. _I see no problem with this,_ so give up trying to tell me that I do. Of course, at least half of you are going to look right past this post and continue to flood the thread with your masturbatory righteous indignation, probably in the form of a restatement of the assertions I’ve just refuted. So I ask again: let it die. If you wanna talk Television, go over to my [Punk thread in Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=619449) where some idiot is trying to say that the term “punk” only applies to bands from the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/310 "2011-08-12T14:39:12Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > I’ve made the point repeatedly that I’m not trying to indict a whole period of time, and that I’m also aware that the music I’m railing against DOES have its own merits that I don’t identify with. It’s the false romance that surrounds “classic rock” that pisses me off. I _know_ that no one style or period of music is inherently better than any other, whether I think it sucks or that it’s genius - that’s the _point._ For a group so apt to complain about strawmen, I sure see a lot of folks wearing overalls around here. Or perhaps brainlessness. I hate to repeat myself, but **if anybody were actually paying attention to my comments, in the OP or otherwise, they would know that most of their attacks are groundless.** All this stuff about how I think “my music” is better than anyone’s, or that I don’t appreciate/respect/understand talent or influence, or that I don’t accept the fact that stuff I like might be influenced by stuff I don’t like, is based on selective reading and misinterpretation. At any rate, you’re all just repeating yourselves at this point, and I also. I’m content to let this thread die. > > Case in point: I say the Clash sucked. _You_ may be saying something different. Two different opinions, and neither one is in any danger from the other. Neither one is meant to be interpreted factually, because to make such a statement and expect it to be accepted as such is ridiculous. We all know this. You’re all perfectly welcome to like the music I think is shitty with no complaints from me, and I clearly like a lot of stuff that you may think is garbage. _I see no problem with this,_ so give up trying to tell me that I do. Of course, at least half of you are going to look right past this post and continue to flood the thread with your masturbatory righteous indignation, probably in the form of a restatement of the assertions I’ve just refuted. So I ask again: let it die. If you wanna talk Television, go over to my [Punk thread in Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=619449) where some idiot is trying to say that the term “punk” only applies to bands from the UK. Get over yourself. This thread no longer has anything to do with you, and you don’t own it. We’ll talk about Television here if we want. ---
**Author:** ![BigShooter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f07891/32.png) [@BigShooter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigShooter)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/311 "2011-08-12T15:38:52Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > “Classic rock” sucks. It just sucks. > [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Also, all the classic “guitar heroes?” Absolute wankers. > [@](#): > > All this stuff about how I think “my music” is better than anyone’s, or that I don’t appreciate/respect/understand talent or influence… is based on selective reading and misinterpretation. Yeah, a lot to misinterpret there in your OP.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/312 "2011-08-12T19:23:07Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Bobby Fuller [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ) The Crickets (minus Buddy Holly): [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmlcTVFvic&feature=related](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmlcTVFvic&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![GovernmentMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GovernmentMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GovernmentMan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/313 "2011-08-27T00:10:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Sure, the “Marquee Moon” solo isn’t your classic blues-lick heavy (although there is certainly classic rock blues influence in there, more towards the beginning of the solo), fluidly phrased type of solo. It is indeed very herky-jerky or “angular,” foreshadowing the types of rhythms that would lay the foundation for a lot of post-punk. > > I do think it’s pretty original, though, and that ragged, stacatto attack on the lead is a very different and interesting type of guitar solo that I’m not used to hearing. In my opinion, it is a masterpiece. The solo follows a wonderful emotional and musical arc, starting with single note guitar noodling, building into a little melodic phrase, which then keeps building, and building, up the scale. There’s lots of quirky little bends and vibratos that add to the tension, along with the jagged rhythms. Every time you think the solo can’t add tension and energy, the band finds a way to dial it up. It goes up the neck, single notes turn into chords, the rising chords turn into rising three-eighth-note full-band stabs, and, finally, when there’s no farther to go, it erupts in an ethereal arpeggio explosion. Then everything fades, except for a little tickle of the ride bell by Bobby Ficca, who reintroduces the main groove after a brief silence. > > That guitar solo is simply a hell of a musical ride (for me, at least), and is everything a great guitar solo should be (once again, in my opinion). It is emotional, it has a compositional arc, it is appropriate for the song, and it communicates a musical idea. And, while everyone is listening to Verlaine, listen closely to what Ficca adds to this solo. Hear how he closely follows Verlaine, how he plays against his rhythms–like adding little triplet fills or 16th note high hat fills. He’s always playing a bit with the groove, keeping it colorful, and never settling down to anything completely predictable. > > Yeah, I like that solo. 🙂 But “solo” detracts from what is a true full band effort. Great post. Made me put on my Marquee Moon cd after reading it ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/314 "2011-08-27T01:50:50Z")
Personally, I’m listening to a lot of [Sleeper Agent](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU2e3mtgz9Y) lately, and I think Classic Rock will never die. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/315 "2011-08-28T03:04:41Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Anybody who listens to anything other than Gregorian chants sucks and doesn’t really know what music is all about. > > I listen to nothing but Gregorian chants. When anybody else talks about their music I make sure that I tell them that their music is overrated and doesn’t need to be played anymore. [_Whaling songs. Excuse me, nothing but whaling songs. New trend, everything else in the dumper, in the dumper … No more classical music, no more country, forget it, forget it, I don’t remember what that is. No more rock and roll. Out the window… Sorry, no more rock and roll at this radio station, just whaling songs._](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akQ6NgP1avI) . ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/316 "2011-08-28T03:12:26Z")
Another great Television song: [Friction.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwrCUEMl76U) I had _never_ heard anything by Television prior to seeing this thread and listening to Marquee Moon (which I liked - though it took several listens to grow on me.) Then later I was driving and listening to the local college station, and heard Friction. I thought: “This must be Televlsion. It has the same sound as Marquee Moon.” I looked it up, and sure enough, it was. Good song. ---
**Author:** ![Clifster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Clifster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clifster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/317 "2014-09-02T13:08:05Z")
There’s no doubt taste is generational-driven. I’m an older guy and can remember as a young kid when Acker Bilk had a number one hit with ‘Stranger On The Shore’. The airwaves were full of crappy schmaltz - uninteresting godawful shit without any kind of spark - jeez - ‘How Much Is That Doggie In The Window’ got number one andplayed a jillion times on radio when I was six or seven (vomit vomit). Radio stations shoved this crapola and similar drivel down the airwaves. The nascent rock’n’roll guys like Little Richard and Chuck Berry were played but seemed to be anomalies - black guys whose stuff was novelties - they didn’t get much airplay in my neck of the woods. The only exception seemed to be Elvis – but he turned out to be a moron who sold out to drivel movies as soon as he got popular. Aagh! Music was fucked. Then - thank all gods and little fishes - we got the Beatles/Animals/Rolling Stones/Who/Kinks etc etc in the space of a year or so and the music went on and on getting better - by the week it seemed - more great bands - what a revelation - music with attitude - with heart- with writing that wasn’t sugar-coated - at 11 years old in 1964 this was shit fucking hot. By 1967 - less than four years after the Beatles first pathetic #1 “Love Me Do” the number one hit in my country was ‘White Room’ - a piece of brilliant writing, singing and musicianship for its time with A FUCKING GREAT LEAD SOLO that got played on radio - vale Cream… What ground breakers. Eric broke them up before they got stale… I remember walking out of a Led Zep concert in late '68 with my feet not touching the ground - I’d been to Valhalla in my then-stoned 18 year old mind… I wouldn’t go to see Led Zep now if you paid me - it’s all in the timing - the zeitgeist… I defy any modern band to have the same effect - but it’s not possible - today’s audience didn’t have to grow up on Acker fucking Bilk… In comparison - the once-great stuff that punch-line is so vehemently against in the context of his musical experience is not in the same ball-park by comparison of what was before. Sure - lots of it is dead and bland today - almost all of it has been flogged beyond death on radio - raped effectively - but- that’s not where the best of it started. I get the derision - I even get the attitude - but if you want to knock stuff - you better know the context if you want any respect. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/318 "2014-09-02T13:18:11Z")
I know you are, but what am I? By the way, you just raised a three year old zombie thread. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/319 "2014-09-02T14:42:47Z")
Is there more classic rock now than there was three years ago? Just wondering… ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/320 "2014-09-02T15:16:40Z")
Summary of OP: “Blah blah blah, other people like things I don’t like” Yeah, so what. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/321 "2014-09-02T15:50:24Z")
> [@naita](#): > > By the way, you just raised a three year old zombie thread. Yeah, but an interesting one. I found myself agreeing with the OP a lot more than I thought I would. I’m with him all the way as far as long, wanking guitar solos…and he’s right on the money about Tom Verlaine and Television being in a very different realm. And it seems to me that those who raised their voices against him were hyperventilating a lot more than he was at any time. I don’t think it’s wrong to be passionate about music and to express that passion, even when it ruffles the feathers of those who hold different opinions. If you think he was too rough on a few precious classic rock icons, then you’ve obviously never read any Lester Bangs! Too many people seem to think “I don’t like certain artists that everyone likes” = “I don’t like anything.” That’s nonsense. The OP was clear that there are other forms of music and other artists he likes a great deal. I probably wouldn’t agree with all of his choices, but I think there would be some common ground between us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=17)