# The truth about "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905 "2011-08-08T02:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/342 "2014-09-03T13:43:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I blame Classic Rock radio stations for killing Classic Rock, but even with the vanishingly few bands they play the stations still don’t play 99.99% of what those bands recorded, and even if you limit the count to their albums before the bands began to suck 95% of it is not played, so you can listen to that on your own. Do you mean to say that The Who recorded more music than “Won’t get Fooled Again”? I don’t think that my local classic rock station knows that. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/343 "2014-09-03T14:05:24Z")
I feel compelled to point out, as I have many times in the past, the realities of radio to those who are whining about Classic Rock stations’ limited playlists. Listen carefully: THE AVERAGE LISTENER TO THESE STATIONS WANTS TO HEAR THE SAME 300 OR SO SONGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. THE AVERAGE LISTENER DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR ALL THE “DEEP CUTS” YOU WISH THEY WOULD PLAY. I’m sympathetic to your complaint. I too find the above realities mind-boggling. But you and I are music freaks. The average listener, by contrast, sees music as a pleasant background to his or her life and nothing more. The average listener wants the tried and true. The average listener shuns the unfamiliar. The “deep cut” approach has been tried over the years on many occasions. It has failed every time. It may work on satellite radio, as the economics of that are different from commercial radio. But unless you’re in a huge market, you need to resign yourself to your hometown Classic Rock station playing Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin (the same few songs from each) _ad nauseum_, with an occasional sprinkling of others. As the Kinks famously said, “Give the people what they want.” This is what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/344 "2014-09-03T14:23:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not a zombie. It’s Classic Thread. The truth about Classic Threads is that “Classic Threads” suck. You just get the same posts over and over again. And they don’t even quote from, like, 95% of the old posts. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/345 "2014-09-03T15:04:43Z")
Well, that settles it. The average listener _must die_. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/346 "2014-09-03T15:10:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The truth about Classic Threads is that “Classic Threads” suck. > > You just get the same posts over and over again. And they don’t even quote from, like, 95% of the old posts. You fail to recognize how influential these classic threads are on the popular threads being posted today. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/347 "2014-09-03T17:51:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, that settles it. The average listener _must die_. I’m trying but I make no promises. The ‘average listener’ (whatever that is) will surely die. “When”, is the only question. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/348 "2014-09-03T18:06:41Z")
zombie or no kill ugly radio. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/349 "2014-09-03T18:08:30Z")
I emailed our classic rock station with this very complaint 7 years ago. I still have the reply, and here it is: > [@](#): > > Thanks for the e-mail. Your complaint is one we get fairly frequently, and it’s a tough one to address. The main reason is that with survey after survey we do some songs come back as being more popular than others. That’s what we base airplay on. At the same time, we recognize that the repetition of these songs can drive some more sophisticated rock lovers crazy, hence the reason we try to go a lot deeper on things like our Sunday programming. > Ottawa’s a really competitive radio market, with four rock stations (23 in total by my last tally) and we’ve learned over 30 years that the best way to stay competitive is by offering what the listeners say they want. The problem is, there is a huge range of people from those who want to hear just the hits, and those who want really obscure stuff all the time. You wouldn’t believe (or maybe you would) how many requests after all these years of playing it, that we get for Stairway to Heaven. As a classic rock fan myself, with pretty eclectic tastes, my perfect station would no doubt be different from yours, and both of them would probably be broader than what gets played everyday on CHEZ. I understand however what keeps most listeners satisfied, most of the time, and that’s what I do when programming the music on CHEZ. It’s kind of like any other business; find out what items sell best, and make sure you keep lots of them in stock. At the same time be sure there are products that more adventuresome customers demand. > I hope this helps, and makes some sense. > Again, thanks for the e-mail. > > Cheers, > > Steve ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/350 "2014-09-03T18:12:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, that settles it. The average listener _must die_. And when we’re talking about the average Classic Rock listener, not to worry! The first Baby Boomers are now 68 years old. The Grim Reaper’s a-comin’! Here’s a few things I don’t understand about the ‘deep cuts don’t work’ bit: 1. If you play the same ~300 songs _ad infinitum_, you may maximize your share of whatever ‘classic rock’ listenership there still is, but ISTM that you’d speed the exit of the Boomers from listening to music on the radio at all. Even if you aren’t paying much attention, hearing that same Journey song for the thousandth time has got to get just kinda blah after awhile. 2. If you try something different, where else are they gonna go anyway? It’s not like most markets have multiple classic rock stations competing with each other. 3. It’s not like the cuts would have to be all that deep. If there are only three Moody Blues songs you ever play, it’s not like they had just three songs that ever got airplay. You don’t have to dig through their albums for the songs that were just as good, but didn’t get released as singles. (Substitute any of the other hundreds of successful groups in the classic-rock canon for ‘Moody Blues’ here. Same difference.) My local classic rock station played Jethro Tull’s “Locomotive Breath” (“Charley’s stole the handle…”) a couple of times lately; I doubt I’d heard that on the radio since the 1970s. 4. And it’s not like they aren’t introducing new stuff anyway, on a scale well beyond that. The latest trend in classic rock is to add stuff from the 1990s to their playlists; apparently they realized that the remaining Boomers still listening to the radio weren’t enough to keep them alive. Adding Nirvana and Dave Matthews, whatever you may think of them, is a much bigger change than somewhat expanding the selection of songs you play by artists from the late 1960s to late 1980s that are already in the classic-rock canon. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/351 "2014-09-03T18:51:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Here’s a few things I don’t understand about the ‘deep cuts don’t work’ bit: > > 1. If you play the same ~300 songs _ad infinitum_, you may maximize your share of whatever ‘classic rock’ listenership there still is, but ISTM that you’d speed the exit of the Boomers from listening to music on the radio at all. Even if you aren’t paying much attention, hearing that same Journey song for the thousandth time has got to get just kinda blah after awhile. To you and me, yeah. But not to the masses (there’s a reason they’re called that). As the PD quoted by Leaffan rightly points out, they want the hits, and aren’t troubled by hearing them again and again. As I recall, the research usually cited about this speaks of the “tune-out factor” unfamiliar songs cause. That is anathema to radio stations. And the sad fact is that more people tune out due to unfamiliar songs than they do because of being sick of the same old ones. The members of the second group have already fled to other alternatives long ago (see next section). > [@](#): > > 1. If you try something different, where else are they gonna go anyway? It’s not like most markets have multiple classic rock stations competing with each other. Well, no, they’ll simply turn the station off rather than listen to something not in their comfort zone. If they come back a few more times and hear too much unfamiliar, the turn-off will be permanent. There are already so many more alternatives (satellite radio, personal .mp3 players that can be tied into a car’s stereo system, etc.) that it’s imperative that radio stations hang on to as many listeners as they can. > [@](#): > > 1. It’s not like the cuts would have to be all that deep. If there are only three Moody Blues songs you ever play, it’s not like they had just three songs that ever got airplay. You don’t have to dig through their albums for the songs that were just as good, but didn’t get released as singles. (Substitute any of the other hundreds of successful groups in the classic-rock canon for ‘Moody Blues’ here. Same difference.) My local classic rock station played Jethro Tull’s “Locomotive Breath” (“Charley’s stole the handle…”) a couple of times lately; I doubt I’d heard that on the radio since the 1970s. “Just as good” doesn’t stand up against “familiar.” And what songs were played at the time an artist’s album was contemporary doesn’t stand up against listening habits developed over the subsequent decades. > [@](#): > > 1. And it’s not like they aren’t introducing new stuff anyway, on a scale well beyond that. The latest trend in classic rock is to add stuff from the 1990s to their playlists; apparently they realized that the remaining Boomers still listening to the radio weren’t enough to keep them alive. Adding Nirvana and Dave Matthews, whatever you may think of them, is a much bigger change than somewhat expanding the selection of songs you play by artists from the late 1960s to late 1980s that are already in the classic-rock canon. I can only speak for my market, but there are actually two Classic Rock stations around here. One takes the approach you mention, mixing in relatively newer stuff with the classics. The other never plays anything newer than about 1985, with the preponderance of songs coming from the 1970s (and yes, the same 300 or so over and over again). Guess which one has the higher ratings? A side-note: I predict that with the exception of sports and right-wing talk shows, terrestrial radio will be dead and gone in the next ten years. The increasing variety of alternative choices for music is only part of the equation. I have a hard time believing that anyone — even members of the unwashed masses — will continue for too long to put up with the **seven straight minutes** of commercials the listener must endure for the sake of having a few minutes of uninterrupted music earlier in the hour. If they’re not pushing the button on the car radio or turning off the switch at home, they’re certainly not paying a whit’s worth of attention during this span. Maybe I’m overestimating people (or underestimating the legerdemain radio sales forces must employ), but I have to also believe that advertisers will eventually get it through their thick skulls than no one is listening to their 30-second spot that’s buried in a thicket of surrounding commercials. If I ran a business and a radio salesperson tried to interest me in time on his station, I’d laugh in his face for this very reason. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/352 "2014-09-04T21:57:13Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, that settles it. The average listener _must die_. It’s happening. The fans of music from the 30s are dead, the fans of music from the 40s are mostly dead, the fans of music from the 50s are dying, and the fans of music from the 60s and 70s are getting there. ---
**Author:** ![Archeonomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Archeonomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archeonomist)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/353 "2014-09-04T22:35:28Z")
And yet fans of music from the 1600s still live. I wonder if any kind of music from our times will be listened to, performed and studied like that a hundred years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/354 "2014-09-04T22:59:16Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The fans of music from the 30s are dead, There are still blues scenes all over the country, and I still hear people covering Robert Johnson. Classic rock isn’t going to be interred with the last baby boomer, either. Not every kid rebels against his parents’ music. I go to open mics and jam sessions and hear plenty of 20-something performers and even teens who are heavily into Hendrix, Zeppelin, the Dead, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/355 "2014-09-04T23:16:45Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Yeah, but an interesting one. I found myself agreeing with the OP a lot more than I thought I would. I’m with him all the way as far as long, wanking guitar solos…and he’s right on the money about Tom Verlaine and Television being in a very different realm. > > And it seems to me that those who raised their voices against him were hyperventilating a lot more than he was at any time. > > I don’t think it’s wrong to be passionate about music and to express that passion, even when it ruffles the feathers of those who hold different opinions. If you think he was too rough on a few precious classic rock icons, then you’ve obviously never read any Lester Bangs! > > Too many people seem to think “I don’t like certain artists that everyone likes” = “I don’t like anything.” That’s nonsense. The OP was clear that there are other forms of music and other artists he likes a great deal. I probably wouldn’t agree with all of his choices, but I think there would be some common ground between us. Totally agree. I remember laughing my ass off at the replies to him 3 years ago, and they cracked me up again today. I would never have gone as far as the OP did, but I found that poster to be entertaining, as he took rather well a lot of shit that was thrown his way. The dude has way more balls than me, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/356 "2014-09-04T23:35:30Z")
> [@Archeonomist](#): > > And yet fans of music from the 1600s still live. I wonder if any kind of music from our times will be listened to, performed and studied like that a hundred years from now. The Beatles will. It’s been 50 years since they were on Ed Sullivan and they are still extremely popular. 100 years from now The Beatles will still be talked about. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/357 "2014-09-04T23:36:35Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > The dude has way more balls than me, that’s for sure. They have surgery for that. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/358 "2014-09-05T02:19:13Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Come on guys, there have to have been at least ten people who have made this joke already. I’d expect more from readers of the Straight Dope. You won’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/359 "2014-09-05T03:47:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You won’t get it. Look who thinks he’s the new Number Two. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/360 "2014-09-05T04:07:20Z")
I hate the fucking Eagles, man. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/361 "2014-09-05T04:54:04Z")
One thing’s for sure. It is easier to trash music others like than to defend the music you like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=19)