# The truth about "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905 "2011-08-08T02:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/81 "2011-08-08T06:00:19Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > There is a difference between “classic rock” and classic rock. Radio stations with a limited playlist of only the most popular 60s/70s rock do suck, but I don’t know how anyone in their right mind could knock Cream. Clapton is amazing on Badge, White Room, and Crossroads. Once he gets into Cocaine (the song) he has jumped the shark, but that is the song with heavy airplay on “Classic Rock” stations. And not liking Stevie Ray Vaughn? Really? That’s a good distinction to make, come to think of it. I don’t know if I’ve been consistent with formatting, but I take much more of an issue with “classic rock” than classic rock. At any rate, I can’t stand Cream or Stevie Ray Vaughn. It all just sounds the same to me, and incredibly cheesy at that. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/82 "2011-08-08T06:00:32Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > In principle I agree with you, but I think the guitar parts in that song are just so great, and the groove in the verse is killer. It’s a long solo, but I love that it’s climactic and that section at the end with the bird calls is gutwrenching. I was coming to mention something similar to **spark240**. It’s honestly just a bit hypocritical to rag on endlessly noodling guitar-gods ( and to be sure that sort of stuff is not to everyone’s taste and that is fine ) and then turn around and lavish love on Verlaine, who has a tendency to noodle off into the ozone layer ;). If not _Marquee Moon_, you have the extended wankfest of _The Strange Case of Little Johnny Jewel_. Which I love, by the way. But c’mon now - that’s guitar wankery at its wankest. Not being a fan of “classic rock” is fine ( though that category is pretty darn vague, not to mention huge as the “classic” era keeps getting bigger ). But let’s strive for a bit more consistency here. It’s one thing to say something is played out and you’re sick of it - personally if I never hear _Freebird_ again I’ll die a happy man and I used to love Lynyrd Skynyrd as a teen ( note: I was born in 1968 ). It’s another to say you hate a style - it’s fine if the epic soloing blues-rock late 1960’s/early 1970’s types like Clapton, Page and Rory Gallagher aren’t your cuppa tea ( as opposed to Verlaine’s space-age psychodelic sound ). But if you’re going to rag on endlessly spiraling guitarists in general, you better not then turn around and embrace Tom Verlaine. Undercuts your whole argument :D. ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/83 "2011-08-08T06:02:46Z")
I don’t like “Little Johnny Jewel” for its wankiness. The solo on “Marquee Moon” does not sound like wanking to me - I hear an identifiable structure, an arc, and identify with a specific emotion it expresses. If a solo can do that then I don’t care how long it goes on. None of the guitarists I mentioned in my OP come anywhere close to that level of expression in my mind. I usually don’t get reactions like that from solos to begin with. Textures like the ones on _Loveless_ are much more likely to get that kind of feeling from me, or tightly arranged parts like on _Spiderland_. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/84 "2011-08-08T06:10:47Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > That’s a good distinction to make, come to think of it. I don’t know if I’ve been consistent with formatting, but I take much more of an issue with “classic rock” than classic rock. > > At any rate, I can’t stand Cream or Stevie Ray Vaughn. It all just sounds the same to me, and incredibly cheesy at that. Weird, cheesy is the last word I would use for Cream. KISS and Grand Funk Railroad, that was cheese. Clapton was a musician, not a product of marketing. He was sought out by other artists and played in some great bands besides Cream: Derek and the Dominoes, Blind Faith, The Yardbirds, and The Bluesbreakers. I know you hate The Beatles, but Harrison asking him to play on My Guitar Gently Weeps is a testament to how much he was respected. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/85 "2011-08-08T06:12:10Z")
Well, if the title of the thread had been “My OPINION about Classic Rock” instead of “The TRUTH”, I think you would be getting a lot less crap from people. Also, yeah, the stuff on the radio is about 1/1000 of the actual “Classic Rock” – it is the pop music version, just like the crap you hear on modern pop music stations. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/86 "2011-08-08T06:13:57Z")
Hmmm… By the way if you’re not crazy about the blues-influenced folks, do you like the [originals](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsMpHHSLSlc) that helped influence that style? Or [acoustic takes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7TNtgjFt9U) by those old blues-rock god guitarists\*? - Well Rory went a bit more metal in his later years, which wasn’t to my taste. But I do love his bluesy [1970’s output](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZNuTeq9hs). ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/87 "2011-08-08T06:14:14Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Weird, cheesy is the last word I would use for Cream. KISS and Grand Funk Railroad, that was cheese. Clapton was a musician, not a product of marketing. He was sought out by other artists and played in some great bands besides Cream: Derek and the Dominoes, Blind Faith, The Yardbirds, and The Bluesbreakers. I know you hate The Beatles, but Harrison asking him to play on My Guitar Gently Weeps is a testament to how much he was respected. For the record, I never said I hated the Beatles. I only said Revolver is the only album that’s good (almost) all the way through. I would still characterize them as a brilliant band who happened to write some awful songs and even made a lame record or two. Anyway, yeah, as I said, I don’t deny the guy’s got chops, and obviously he’s very well respected. I still think his playing is lame - “Gently Weeps” is one of my least favorite Beatles songs. ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/88 "2011-08-08T06:15:58Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Hmmm… > > By the way if you’re not crazy about the blues-influenced folks, do you like the [originals](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsMpHHSLSlc) that helped influence that style? Or [acoustic takes](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7TNtgjFt9U) by those old blues-rock god guitarists\*? A lot of the old stuff runs together for me, but I do love some Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters now and then. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/89 "2011-08-08T06:25:46Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > By the end of the 60s, it was all about theatrics and pyrotechnics, whether literally or in terms of guitar technique. The performers were miles away from the audience, and they were put on pedestals to a point where kids were growing up thinking, “I could never do that.” Mostly true, but why do you care to rehash pop culture arguments that are over 30 years old now? You’ve discovered punk rock and think you’re the first person to do so? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/90 "2011-08-08T06:33:50Z")
Again, this place proves to be a troll’s wet dream. Although **Rhythmdvl** did nail it in the first post. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/91 "2011-08-08T06:33:57Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > There is a difference between “classic rock” and classic rock. Radio stations with a limited playlist of only the most popular 60s/70s rock do suck, but I don’t know how anyone in their right mind could knock Cream. Clapton is amazing on Badge, White Room, and Crossroads. Once he gets into Cocaine (the song) he has jumped the shark, but that is the song with heavy airplay on “Classic Rock” stations. And not liking Stevie Ray Vaughn? Really? I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so the music of that time is the soundtrack to my adolescence. When I did something for the first time, usually there was music in the background. So that music, for good or bad, is tied to some of my most emotional memories. One of the things that I hate about many “classic rock” stations is their limited playlist. Classic rock covers a huge range of songs, yet I only hear the same 40 or 50 played every day, it seems. Now, if it’s something I love, that’s great…but if I hear “All Right Now” again I’m gonna have to go spare on someone. “Stairway to Heaven” and “Freebird” are famous for being overplayed. When they first came out, I loved them. As time went on, though, I definitely reached my limit. And lately, I’ve reached my limit on the most played tracks from “The Wall”. Now, if a station is playing current music in a small niche, then they might have an excuse for a tiny playlist. But these days, with digital music, there’s no excuse for replaying a particular song every single day. Change that shit up, give us some songs that are just as good but don’t get as much airplay. ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/92 "2011-08-08T06:37:45Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so the music of that time is the soundtrack to my adolescence. When I did something for the first time, usually there was music in the background. So that music, for good or bad, is tied to some of my most emotional memories. > > One of the things that I hate about many “classic rock” stations is their limited playlist. Classic rock covers a huge range of songs, yet I only hear the same 40 or 50 played every day, it seems. Now, if it’s something I love, that’s great…but if I hear “All Right Now” again I’m gonna have to go spare on someone. “Stairway to Heaven” and “Freebird” are famous for being overplayed. When they first came out, I loved them. As time went on, though, I definitely reached my limit. And lately, I’ve reached my limit on the most played tracks from “The Wall”. Now, if a station is playing current music in a small niche, then they might have an excuse for a tiny playlist. But these days, with digital music, there’s no excuse for replaying a particular song every single day. Change that shit up, give us some songs that are just as good but don’t get as much airplay. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/93 "2011-08-08T06:51:26Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’d never describe Steely Dan, a band that I love, as “classic rock.” Really they are jazz-rock with some elements of prog rock, but Fagan’s lyrics are at a whole other level from 99% of rock music. Heavy airplay on mainstream FM stations in the 70s seems to be the most common definition of classic rock that I can come up with, but I’m fine with moving them to a different category as I agree that they are quite unique. I will say that they were in rotation on most of the same stations that were playing Frampton, Zeppelin, The Who, Boston, Foreigner, Bob Seger, etc. in that time period. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/94 "2011-08-08T06:58:54Z")
How does the OP feel about prog rock like Yes and Jethro Tull? I personally like it and always have - maybe because I grew up with my dad playing it - I think it is a pretty significant departure from the typical classic rock of the time. There was a lot of interesting melodic composition and the lyrics weren’t about sex. But many people hate that kind of music. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/95 "2011-08-08T08:16:12Z")
C’mon man. The whole ‘what you listen to is crap’ stuff is even more dated than the music you complain about. The reality is that music is entirely subjective. What grates on your nerves may reach someone else in that special place. We can objectively rate skills but that is about it. It’s like the Grateful Dead. I don’t get it. I HATE their music. I think it is swill. My ex-wife loves them. My current GF’s son currently follows their skeleton around the country. Now, am I wrong or are they wrong. They are, of course. 🙂 I like a lot of that classic rock, but soooo much has been omitted from their playlists that we have to question the name. I like a lot of the prog rock. I have been in more pits at punk shows than I can count. I can only listen to a couple hip-hop songs and I cannot listen to any country outside of Johnny Cash. But I can see how that is just a matter of personal taste. I heard part of your line of reasoning from Johnny Rotten. He talked about the ‘boring’ aspect of technical profficiency of the prog rock acts of the mid 70’s as if the fact the HE himself had none made THEM bad for having it. He sounded like an idiot. How about this? Instead of trying to tell us how much one genre sucks (which you kinda failed at ☹ ) tell us what is great about what _you_ like. You might get several folks to take a chance and listen to it. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Oh and because I have wasted fifteen minutes of my life on this thread, I condemn the OP to eighteen months of having the guitar riff from “Free Bird” stuck in his head. Aw man, that’s just _mean!_ [sub]I grew up in the midwest and spent a lot of my youth in the south. I literally _cannot_ listen to that song again. If I can’t escape it, I will plug my ears and scream. If you like it, enjoy! Just give me fair warning.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/96 "2011-08-08T09:16:28Z")
I used to think like you mate. Hell I listen to a lot of the bands you talk about (although I was starting to lose interest in Post Rock around the time Explosions in the Sky appeared and I prefer the later MBV textured stuff to the ‘Isn’t Anything’ style stuff). The difference is, I still listen to a lot of that music, hell, I had a massive Ride moment yesterday, going through ‘Nowhere’ and the early EPs, but I also grew up. And that’s where we differ. ps. My username is the short form of American Analog Set, the band that according to Wikipedia got Explosions in the Sky (a band you specifically mentioned) their big break. And I’ve been using the name since 1999. Just in case you think maybe I’m bullshitting you. Well, since 1999 on here. I think I first started using it around 1997 on Slashdot. or whatever it was called back then. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/97 "2011-08-08T09:57:59Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > I also think Kevin Shields is a total original - no one can play a guitar like that. If the Jesus and Mary Chain didn’t exist, you’d have no MBV. They did it first, and they did it better. And I say this as a huge MBV fan. Of course, the JaMC were just redoing the Velvet Underground. “_plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose…_” How do you feel about The Swans? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/98 "2011-08-08T10:30:36Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > Also, all the classic “guitar heroes?” Absolute wankers. Jimmy Paige? Eric Clapton? Ritchie Blackmore? Keith Richards? Stevie Ray Vaughn? Pete Townshend? Joe Perry? Total fucking wankers. Skilled? Sure. Interesting? Not even a little. Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, and SRV. One of these things is different from the others, one of these things is not the same. o/` Hint: It’s the guy who plays music involving three chords, two fingers, and one asshole. And these days, Nirvana counts as Classic Rock. So do the Stooges. Ramones are retro. Sabbath’s old. Maiden and Metallica are what your parents listen to. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/99 "2011-08-08T10:36:36Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > At any rate, I can’t stand Cream or Stevie Ray Vaughn. It all just sounds the same to me, and incredibly cheesy at that. Cream sounds the same as Stevie Ray Vaughn? Objectively speaking, that’s horseshit. Look. I think most of us here get it. In your head, you are the charitable Nihilist. You believe you were put on Earth to selflessly shove the Idols from their pedestals for our benefit. You believe that once we evolve past our stunted, “what ever Rolling Stone likes must be great” mindset we will find ourselves forever indebted to you. That’s in your head, and just goofy enough to impress naive 17 year-old girls at dorm parties. Really though? You are a poseur who can’t even pose well; your posing is brittle and obvious. You are a copycat hipster with even less “hip” then the rest of your ilk, who don’t even have a sniff of the delicious joke that is: you pussies are the squarest little nobodies around, Daddy-O. You knock down any musician who has won consensus praise merely because the consensus praises them and therefore must just be doing the bidding of “The Man”. You feel bummed that there is no G-8 Conference anytime soon in your immediate vicinity which means you haven’t any opportunity to get out your black bandana to wrap around your pimply face as you throw rocks at the police… until they push back, and you get scared. Or, you just get bored, or the cute anarchist chicks go home leaving you no reason to pose anymore. You are _especially_ pissed at the Baby Boomers (and by extension, their music) 'cause they had that awesome opportunity to protest Vietnam, leaving you ragingly jealous of those fucker’s A-1 opportunity to bag protest-babe beaver. All you’re left with is your “me too!” big, black, thick-framed glasses and the requisite scruffy beard, rejecting everything that “The Man” embraces, and plagiarizing bad poetry on your MacBook Pro at the vegan Cafe just off-campus. We feel your pain, man. It’s a rough world for prophets like you who truly dig what’s going on in the universe, man, while the rest of us “just don’t get it.” Oh… by the way… no, I CAN’T spare any change, because we both know you got a nice, warm bed and organic groceries in the fridge at daddy’s McMansion in the suburbs that you go home to whenever you are scared and hungry, and tired of being laughed at. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905/100 "2011-08-08T10:45:41Z")
Hey, everyone goes through the ‘I am Punk’ stage in their life. I’m not sure I’m ever going to leave it. But then, if you’re lucky, your mind begins to expand and knit things together and you see what all those noodling bands are saying. You don’t have to agree with the message of the sonic tapestry, but it’s there. As far as Kill Your Idols, it’s not about throwing them away. It’s a paraphrase of a classic Buddhist quote. “If you meet Buddha on the road, kill him.” It means that the way to enlightenment is your own, and you can’t reach it by following people. Which is true. In music, it’s very true. Being a cover band never got anyone famous. (Weird Al is not a cover band. Okay, fine, the Fab Faux. Lez Zepplin…) But still, being a cover band never got anyone expanding the frontiers of music. It’s still about finding your own sound, whatever it is. And that means knowing and understanding your idols… and then killing them. Me, I’m still at the ‘understanding your idols’ part. Sometimes, you have to ‘Walk, Don’t Run’ before you can jump off a cliff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-classic-rock/591905.md?page=6)