# The Truth About Rape
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 1, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871 "2002-11-01T18:07:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/1 "2002-11-01T18:07:02Z")
1.)The fems say that
–Rape is About Power-
-It’s An Act of Violence Not Sex-
This doesn’t seem like its the whole story. Rape is about horniness too. It only makes sense. In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape.
2.)The fems say that
–For Every Bad Girl There is a Bad Father Figure-
Girls sell their flesh because it is all that some of them know how to do; Girls hustle because the market forces exist. We are there to buy it, and (in Amerika,) demand exceeds supply. Girls learn at an early age that they can use their seductiveness to get what they want. There are lots of reasons, other than –Bad Daddies-.
3.) The fems say that
- All male female sex is rape- or -Regrets the next morning = rape-
Do I even have to point out that this is crap?
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### Author:  [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/2 "2002-11-01T18:11:20Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Do I even have to point out that this is crap?
I’m sorry, I misread that as “Do I even have a point in all this crap?”
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/3 "2002-11-01T18:16:17Z")
OK, we’ve got the strawman, now if **cole burner** can come up with the lion, tin man, and Dorothy we’ll be all set.
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/4 "2002-11-01T18:16:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> 3.) The fems say that
>
> - All male female sex is rape- or -Regrets the next morning = rape-
Andrea Dworkin does not constitute “the fems”. No one appointed her spokesperson for all of feminism.
> [@](#):
>
> 2.)The fems say that
> –For Every Bad Girl There is a Bad Father Figure-
No feminist would have used the term “Bad Girl”. Research does tend to show a high correlation between being the victim of child sexual abuse and certain self-destructive behaviors: cutting, depression, drug and alcohol abuse…possibly prostitution, although I don’t specifically recall it. I’ll search for a cite on this. Certainly some feminists have claimed that prostitution is not (necessarily) a self-destructive endeavor, and that attitudes towards prostitutes are part and parcel of the oppression of women.
> [@](#):
>
> In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/5 "2002-11-01T18:20:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*1.)The fems say that \*\*
It’s not only feminists that say this, you realize.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape. \*\*
Cite, please.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*3.) The fems say that
>
> - All male female sex is rape- or -Regrets the next morning = rape-
>
> Do I even have to point out that this is crap? \*\*
As a feminist, I’d like to say that only the extremists hold these particular views (or, cite please, that this is a common and accepted view in feminist theory. Particularly the bit about regrets.)
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/6 "2002-11-01T18:23:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\* In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape. \*\*
I’m not necessarily doubting this, but do you have a cite? I’ve often wondered about rape statistics for societies with cheap, legal, low-risk prostitution.
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/7 "2002-11-01T18:24:16Z")
uh…Huh?
> [@](#):
>
> In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape.
Wha–??!
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### Author:  [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/8 "2002-11-01T18:26:31Z")
South Korea - prostitution is plentiful and tolerated and cheap. Rape rates? 4.38 for per 100,000 people.
Japan - prostitution is an accepted part of their culture. Rape rate is 1.48 per 100,000 people.
Source is [http://www.moi.gov.tw/W3/stat/english/etopic/89criminal.htm](http://www.moi.gov.tw/W3/stat/english/etopic/89criminal.htm)
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/9 "2002-11-01T19:46:44Z")
Um, rape is using sex as a weapon.
It’s about degradation-using something that should be beautiful and meaningful and given in love and compassion, and twisting it around-perverting it into an act of power over someone, of humiliation and violence.
IF someone is horny, they can simply spank their monkey.
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/10 "2002-11-01T20:03:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*Japan - prostitution is an accepted part of their culture. Rape rate is 1.48 per 100,000 people.
>
> Source is [http://www.moi.gov.tw/W3/stat/english/etopic/89criminal.htm](http://www.moi.gov.tw/W3/stat/english/etopic/89criminal.htm) \*\*
You’re overlooking the possibility that they also get their rape out of their system by way of their numerous rape comic books. And rape videos. And alien rape comic books and videos. Not what most of us would consider a healthy attitude toward sex – but maybe it does keep them off the street.
If your point in the OP was that “Rape Is A Crime Of Violence” is an over-simplistic mantra, that might be a less-provocative way to put it. Especially in the murky realm of “date rape” controversies, denying that simple lust has any part in it does, indeed, seem misleading and possibly political. Coercion isn’t attractive in any context, but no one really believes that coercion for coercion’s sake (rather than for another end) is the only form of coercion. And then we could get into the debate about how we’re all coerced in some form or another every day, and that everyone makes sexual decisions for a variety of mixed motives that might not look too pretty when examined:
[http://www.theonion.com/onion3208/sexforsecurity.html](http://www.theonion.com/onion3208/sexforsecurity.html)
I don’t know that it makes too much difference from a policy standpoint: rape was disapproved and criminalized in the days before “Rape=Crime Of Violence Only” became dogma, and it’s disapproved and criminalized now; apparently there’s a consensus that it’s not too cool (Japanese anime always excepted). I \ you were arguing that subtracting the sexual element from a he said/she said campus “date rape” controversy by injecting Rape=Violence Only as an absolute presumption is unfair because while no one chooses to be, say, punched in the face (well, not most people), many people do choose to have sex, and its incorrect to posit that two drunk frosh could only have sex because one was victimizing the other. If that’s your argument, you may get a less critical reception phrasing it more like that, IMHO.
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/11 "2002-11-01T20:07:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*
> 1.)The fems say that
> –Rape is About Power-
> -It’s An Act of Violence Not Sex-
>
> This doesn’t seem like its the whole story. Rape is about horniness too.
\*\*
So you rape women when you feel horny?
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> 3.) The fems say that
>
> - All male female sex is rape- or -Regrets the next morning = rape
>
> Do I even have to point out that this is crap?
\*\*
No, but you could point out that you just made it up.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> Japan - prostitution is an accepted part of their culture.
\*\*
This is questionable. Prostitution is not legal in Japan, and while it may be tolerated that is very different from it being “an accepted part of their culture”. I certainly do not know any Japanese women who would look upon prostitution as an acceptable career path, and I know a lot of Japanese women.
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*
> Rape rate is 1.48 per 100,000 people.
> \*\*
Incidences of rape and other forms of sexual assault are vastly underreported in Japan, perhaps even moreso than in the US.
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### Author:  [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/12 "2002-11-01T20:19:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape. \*\*
Oh, that must be why no one has ever been raped in Nevada.
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/13 "2002-11-01T20:27:02Z")
[QUOTE]
\*Originally posted by Lamia \*
* * *
So you rape women when you feel horny?
\*\*
cole, that’s what I mean about provocative. No, your OP didn’t actually advocate rape, but it wouldn’t have hurt to (a) get on the record that you disapprove and (b) get on the record that you feel for the victims of rape (or “real rape,” if you want to open that can of worms). You’re going to hear one way or the other from people who are or regard themselves as victims of rape, and hear how bad it was for them, and that’s going to be a distraction from whatever real point you were trying to make (I’m still not sure) – but by being or appearing insensitive, you positively invite this sort of response.
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### Author:  [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/14 "2002-11-01T20:32:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*In countries where prostitution is cheap and plentiful, there is almost zero rape. \*\*
Oh, that must be why no one has ever been raped in Nevada.
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@cole\_burner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cole_burner)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/15 "2002-11-01T20:46:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Oh, that must be why no one has ever been raped in Nevada.
cuauhtemoc, what’s the rape rate in Nevada counties where prostitution is legal vs. the counties where it isn’t? (Hint: the answer doesn’t help your position.)
> [@](#):
>
> Incidences of rape and other forms of sexual assault are vastly underreported in Japan, perhaps even moreso than in the US.
Really. Can you prove this with a cite?
Huerta88, I appreciate the advice, but if people can’t read it’s not my fault. I certainly don’t condone RAPE. But it is a crime of SEX as well as violence and different cases have more sex than violence (the semi-drunk college kids) and other cases have more violence than sex. But it’s a mixed bag and the mantra of “It’s a crime of violence” is misleading, and irresponsible from “feminist” leaders.
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### Author:  [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/16 "2002-11-01T20:52:46Z")
Question:
If rape is about violence and not sex, why are there ‘rape counselors’ but not ‘mugging counselors’ or ‘stabbing counselors’ and there are ‘rape hotlines’ but not ‘mugging hotlines’ or ‘stabbing hotlines’ etc.
I would like to hear other people’s opinions on this, especially those who have been to rape counseling, called a rape hotline or worked in that field. Because I still boggle that the first thing many people ask me after finding out I was raped is ‘Did you get counseling?’
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/17 "2002-11-01T20:54:18Z")
**Lamia** , this is a hijack, but how does it become accepted that a certain crime is underreported?
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### Author:  [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/18 "2002-11-01T20:57:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> **cuauhtemoc, what’s the rape rate in Nevada counties where prostitution is legal vs. the counties where it isn’t? (Hint: the answer doesn’t help your position.)**
If you know it, then cite it, don’t “Hint”.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by cole burner \*
> \*\*
> Really. Can you prove this with a cite?
>
> Huerta88, I appreciate the advice, but if people can’t read it’s not my fault. I certainly don’t condone RAPE. But it is a crime of SEX as well as violence and different cases have more sex than violence (the semi-drunk college kids) and other cases have more violence than sex. But it’s a mixed bag and the mantra of “It’s a crime of violence” is misleading, and irresponsible from “feminist” leaders. \*\*
That’s a broad brush stroke, what “feminist” leaders are you talking about exactly. Also, how is rape not a crime of violence? I’m not talking about “Date rape” mind you (although some date rape cases can apply). Rape is, by definition, a forcible and violent act.
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### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/19 "2002-11-01T21:15:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by catsix \*
> \*\*Question:
>
> If rape is about violence and not sex, why are there ‘rape counselors’ but not ‘mugging counselors’ or ‘stabbing counselors’ and there are ‘rape hotlines’ but not ‘mugging hotlines’ or ‘stabbing hotlines’ etc.
>
> I would like to hear other people’s opinions on this, especially those who have been to rape counseling, called a rape hotline or worked in that field. Because I still boggle that the first thing many people ask me after finding out I was raped is ‘Did you get counseling?’ \*\*
Theory 1: “Counseling” is the modern day panacea/church/palliative. Columbine: bring in the counselors. Sniper: Counselors for all the bystanders. How effective or necessary any of this counseling is is anyone’s guess (as one rather callous acquaintance put it, “If they’re that upset over the sniper, they need to either get into a church or confront the abyss alone.”). But that doesn’t answer your question of why counseling as palliative for rape in particular and not other bad criminal events.
Theory 2: See the “underreporting” debate. Rape victim advocates (probably sincerely) believe that rape truly is underreported, goes unpunished, is societally condoned, is particularly heinous, leaves its victims with no effective recourse. Since going to the police isn’t effective, as it is for mugging (um, sometimes; or occasionally), we need a crisis hotline to deal with the epidemic of rapes. There are some flaws with this approach, not least that everyone would probably like to have a special hotline/avenue of redress for “their” particular issue; because the class of mugging victims includes such a heterogeneous group, they don’t have a very unified voice in pressing for mugging hotlines, but the class of rape victims/perceived rape victims happens to coincide with a ready made political bloc, which already has an advocacy wing.
The rape hotlines also seem to foster a crisis mentality that probably does not do as much good for women as it’s intended to; there is something a little . . . over the top in the view that there’s a rapist around every corner, and it can’t be healthy to be suggesting this to women (though if it’s your daughter, striking the balance between not terrifying her of all men and making sure she doesn’t become the victim of some pervert is admittedly not easy).
I was always a bit bemused that the Let’s Go travel books made a point of prominently listing the rape hotline number for each city they profiled; there’s a cheery thought while planning your European vacation. I wonder how many of the readers have ever actually had occasion to use that information; it’s also true Let’s Go is written by college students who have probably just encountered (or been informed of) the horrors of the patriarchy, so I should cut them some slack.
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### Author:  [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-about-rape/134871/20 "2002-11-01T21:17:25Z")
The equation of sexual dominance with power in our culture puts it into some people’s minds that they can achieve something worthwhile through sexual subjugation of another person. No one is saying that rapists are _not_ horny, just that it’s not the source of the crime.
Every healthy person in the world gets horny. Most people have sex or beat off to alleviate their horniness. Rapists could do that too, but instead they choose to commit acts of violence. If it were about sexual release, they wouldn’t do that. They’d spank it like everyone else. Therefore _rape is about power, not sex_.
And I maintain that it has _never_ been conclusively demonstrated that access to prostitution even correllates to frequency of rape, let alone that there is a causal relationship between one thing and the other.
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