# The Truth Fish Eating the Darwin Fish **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189 "2001-07-30T02:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Buck\_Nekked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/46a35a/32.png) [@Buck\_Nekked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Nekked)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/21 "2001-07-30T07:40:44Z")
Pesch wrote: > [@](#): > > Personally, I don’t have a problem reconciling both evolution and religion. I’m amazed that, somehow, all creatures have been ‘programmed’ with behaviors that attempt to improve the species’ chance of survival. This could be the most elegant passage of a Pit thread that smells more like GD than fish. Why must I sacrifice my faith in the name of science? I have a right to believe in powers greater than myself while simultaneously recognizing that evolution does indeed exist. Should we have the right to advertise our faith by symbolizing it as a predator? Is that an appropriate representation of the beliefs of your faith? It certainly doesn’t represent mine, and it doesn’t exactly strike me as the most effective recruitment tool, but I’m not going to question the right to display it on private property. It’s no different than the little Calvin and Hobbes kid pissing on the Chevy logo. By all means, express yourselves in ways that give the rest of us a maturity measurement. It helps whenever we have a reason to communicate with you in ways more advanced than hand gestures. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/22 "2001-07-30T07:52:21Z")
I believe we have a poster whose sig line is “The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.” ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/23 "2001-07-30T09:14:42Z")
I believe for those who don’t care either way, they sell a sticker of the two fish, Jesus and Darwin, having sex. I forget which one’s on top. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/24 "2001-07-30T10:55:56Z")
Anyone got a picture of what you’re talking about? I’ve not come across this “Darwin fish”. pan ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/25 "2001-07-30T12:28:49Z")
This page shows the christian “jesus” fish, and the creationist “darwin” fish. [http://www.greendzn.com/fishwars2.htm](http://www.greendzn.com/fishwars2.htm) The christians responded with this (what the OP was referring to): [http://www.faithandgrace.com/Graphics/darwintruth2.jpg](http://www.faithandgrace.com/Graphics/darwintruth2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/26 "2001-07-30T12:39:29Z")
Thanks. I’ve only ever seen the fish without any lettering inside it. I like the Darwin fish though - it’s cute. How about we make a Zen butterfly engulfing the Truth-eating-Darwin fishes? pan ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/27 "2001-07-30T13:24:51Z")
Anyone catch the “survival of the fittest” ploy in all of this? 😃 **kabbes** , in my own way, I was thinking of a fishing rod with both those suckers on hooks. Or maybe a dollar sign with hooks hanging down. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/28 "2001-07-30T14:34:41Z")
Yeah, what **Buck Nekked** & **Pesch** said. Fish, bumper stickers, window decals, etc. Don’t bother me a bit. Those yellow balls on the tops of antennas? Damn things bouncing all over the place. Enough to make you scream. [GD]If humans are capable of creating so many different complex things, why is it so hard to believe that there is a being, way more sophisticated than us, who created the earth and all that’s on it? And why is it hard to believe that this being allowed room for growth? Wouldn’t that be the smart thing to do, to allow the creations to adapt to help ensure their survival?[/GD] ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/29 "2001-07-30T22:51:16Z")
I’m just glad they don’t have a Truth Finch eating a Darwin Finch… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/30 "2001-07-30T23:32:02Z")
You know, I’m gonna make a sticker that has the Truth Fish on one side, and the Darwin Fish on the other, and between them, I’m going to have them holding fins, with hearts all around it. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/31 "2001-07-31T00:23:56Z")
You rang? ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/32 "2001-07-31T00:56:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pesch \* > \*\*I’m amazed that, somehow, all creatures have been ‘programmed’ with behaviors that attempt to improve the species’ chance of survival. \*\* What’s so amazing about that? A species that does not have the proper instincts to survive _doesn’t survive._ There’s no evidence to suggest these instincts were created by God or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Nekked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/46a35a/32.png) [@Buck\_Nekked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Nekked)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/33 "2001-07-31T01:11:23Z")
jab1 wrote: > [@](#): > > A species that does not have the proper instincts to survive doesn’t survive. There’s no evidence to suggest these instincts were created by God or anyone else. It is this lack of evidence that creates my need for faith. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/34 "2001-07-31T01:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*I suppose someone should really come out with an “ICHTHYS” fish with feet, if they haven’t already done so. \*\* Every now and again, I get the urge to sneak into a church parking lot and stick little feet on the fish. I just haven’t had the roundtuits (or the guts) to do it. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Theios](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e8c25b/32.png) [@Theios](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theios)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/35 "2001-07-31T01:26:08Z")
You know, I was pissed off about the Truth eating Darwin fishy as well. But then I realised I was looking at it the wrong way. You see, the (religious) Truth isn’t eating Darwin, It’s CHOKING on it. See? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/36 "2001-07-31T01:48:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > (Mr. Cyn, how about a Hassidic eating gefilte jesus fish?) \*\* _Drumroll_ I’m not sure that’s kosher. _Bah dum bum_ _Michael flees from incoming blunt objects_ ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/37 "2001-08-01T19:15:40Z")
And [one for our pagan friends!](http://members.tripod.com/~shadowdrake2/) [sub]Yeah, I realize it’s only a virtual one, though.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Winnowill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4491bb/32.png) [@Winnowill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnowill)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/38 "2001-08-01T23:07:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie \* > \*\*The my-belief-system-can-beat-up-your-belief-system tone of those stickers just seems so, um, _unChristinan_ to me. > > Whereas the Darwin-eating-fishie one strikes me as quite consistant with the philosophy. \*\* I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve often wondered if the people who have those on their cars have really THOUGHT about the symbolism they’re invoking. The most amusing are the ones that have both the Truth Eating Darwin fish AND a WWJD sticker? Umm? Hello? What would Jesus do? I sincerely doubt that he’d have such an intolerant (for lack of a better word) image on his vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/39 "2001-08-02T00:01:09Z")
I haven’t read this whole thread, but I just thought I’d mention that there are Christians (me!) who also think the whole thing is ridiculous. I won’t even put the Christian fish on my car because of the association with the sub-culture as a whole, with no opportunity to select the parts that I want. I’m currently in a big email debate with a fundy-esque friend of mine is making it clear that though he is an intellectually honest guy, he has almost no appreciation for what the real current beliefs on evolution are. His arguments about it being anti-God are rooted in fundamental ignorance of what the pro-evolution beliefs even are at all. So are most of these people. Unfortunately, it’s not just Christians, or Americans, or whatever that don’t want to take the time to really root out truth and accuracy. I think that’s called humans. ---
**Author:** ![Novus\_Opiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Novus\_Opiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novus_Opiate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189/40 "2001-08-02T00:58:34Z")
Yeah, i figured posting this little rant on the SDMB was kinda like preaching to the choir (har har). It seems to me that the vast majority of SDMB users are quite intelligent and have thus realized the common sense nature of natural selection (Deep down, I guess I was hoping for that “time to go peel it off my car” post, oh well). I’m not necessarily anti-Christian, i just don’t see the problem with viewing naturral selection as a tool of the Almighty. Who’s to say that Darwin didn’t nail the Big Guy’s Process down 100%? Natural selection isn’t so disagreeable to a Christian perspective, is it? Novus Opiate * * * “Tommorow is harvest day and ,for them, it is the holocaust” MJK [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-truth-fish-eating-the-darwin-fish/74189.md?page=3)