# The TV trope of girls beating boys in sports **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326 "2018-10-02T17:53:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/21 "2018-10-02T22:39:57Z")
Cinema likes the underdog beating the favorite; not so much the other way around. There’s really nothing more to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/22 "2018-10-02T22:53:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Cinema likes the underdog beating the favorite; not so much the other way around. There’s really nothing more to it than that. Several people have said this, but I think it’s oversimplified at best. In an underdog story, especially an unsubtle one aimed at kids, the underdog is going to be on the edge of defeat at least once, and then make some amazing comeback to squeak it out. Here, she left him in the dust from the first point, and just continually made him the Washington Generals to her Globetrotters. > [@suranyi](#): > > Well, there was “Bend it like Beckham”, about a girls soccer team, and actually quite a good movie. Yes, I really liked it too. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/23 "2018-10-03T07:50:23Z")
SlackerInc, the cultural significance is that Disney finds that “boy dominates girl” doesn’t make for an entertaining story. Frankly, I’m inclined to agree. What _are_ you worried about? That girls are going to get their illusions about athletic dominance shattered? That happens to pretty much everyone at some point, male or female. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/24 "2018-10-03T08:20:20Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I think this is just the fact that stories are biased toward underdogs. To the point where if you see an underdog movie in which they don’t win the championship it actually counts as subverting the trope. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/25 "2018-10-03T08:42:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Here, she left him in the dust from the first point, and just continually made him the Washington Generals to her Globetrotters. …you say in the OP you were watching out of the corner of your eye until a certain scene came up. But this sounds like you are much more intimately aware of the entire details of the plot. What was the name of the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/26 "2018-10-03T10:01:38Z")
Firstly **iamthewalrus** nailed it as being a sub-trope of the underdog always winning. But also, it’s not necessarily fantasy. Yes, if we’re talking professional women competing against professional men in a physical sport then they have no chance: at a professional level every little thing counts, and the difference in muscle mass and bodyfat between the genders is not a little thing. But if we’re talking pre-pubescent youths say, or just two random non-professional adults? Sure the girls might win. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/27 "2018-10-03T11:17:42Z")
I’m several years past being forced to watch Disney tween shows with my girls. Having a girl beat a boy in sports is about the most quaintly innocent thing they push on there. I had to make it clear that the attitudes and disrespect the characters showed towards their parents and all other adults wouldn’t fly in our house. They were in no danger of thinking they could take on a man one on one in basketball. Then again they are about the most unathletic individuals you will ever meet. I do remember watching Liv and Maddie with the kids. I don’t remember if the star athlete of the show ever played against a boy. I do remember thinking Dove Cameron looked totally unathletic and they could have cast someone who actually looked like they play basketball. Or could even make a basket. But when they cast the tiny pretty blonde girl I don’t think that was their priority. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/28 "2018-10-03T11:19:55Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > I coached a girls soccer team starting in kindergarten and stopped in grade 4 when my daughter quit. We destroyed all teams including the boys teams we scrimmaged. And the Chipmunks were absolutely pulling away from the boy’s teams in 3rd and 4th grade. Other coaches and parents would ask about the team’s secret, I would point to my daughter playing in a skirt and chasing butterflies and say, “That one’s mine. I haven’t a clue.” But in reality, the secret was that out of the 9 on the team I had 3 girls who had at least 2 older sisters and another 4 or 5 who had an older sister. Oh, and I would say that \>two-thirds of the team had at least one mom who was an active runner or played soccer/softball/volleyball currently. > > Having sport-loving women around is a good thing! Of which jackasses like Alessandro Strumia (CERN and STEM for women in the recent news) will never understand the implications for women and other underrepresented groups across many industries! Question: were girls allowed to “play down”? In hockey one dirty little secret of why girls do better is they can “play down”. Meaning a 10 year old girl can play on a 9 and under team. Which can be quite a difference at that age but isnt so important past age 14. Yes, it helps if you have a family really into sports and that goes for both boys and girls. Back when my son was playing baseball there was this one all-girl team that also had a female coach. Very cute with the pink uniforms. Only problem was they were terrible and they quit about 2nd grade and switched to softball. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/29 "2018-10-03T11:24:48Z")
Funny story, or stories. A couple of times I’ve asked why the girls want to play on boys teams and the common answer is the girls felt all girl teams didnt play hard enough. The girl who played boys baseball mentioned that. We had a couple of girls switch from figure skating to hockey. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/30 "2018-10-03T11:31:02Z")
Finally I would like to add that girls usually switch back to girls teams or girls sports like softball because of scholarship issues. The chances of a girl getting a full ride scholarship in say softball, soccer, tennis or other sports is pretty good. In tennis for example few colleges even have mens tennis teams. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/31 "2018-10-03T12:14:05Z")
It’s not any different than the trope of the nerdy, unattractive guy getting the beautiful girl, or people from widely different economic classes marrying. Those things don’t happen very often in real life either, but are common in American tv and cinema. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/32 "2018-10-03T13:04:48Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Stories that reinforced male dominance and traditional gender roles? Believe me, we have plenty of those already. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Historically, we have, yes. But it’s not really allowed these days, not in these direct kinds of contests. Cite? And, has been stated, it’s just a version of the ‘underdog’ trope. And guess what, girls are, for the most part, perceived as the underdogs in athletics. And the fact that you’re worried that Disney is setting up the poor women for future disappointment is a part of that. Do you have a problem with all ‘underdog’ stories, or just the ones that show girls winning? Do we need to teach our young boys who may be weaker/less popular that despite what they see on (some random TV show) they in fact can’t overcome the stronger more dominant asshole and they should set their sights lower, or is it just our daughters who need to be reminded? Goliath and David, not Goliath and Dianne! ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/33 "2018-10-03T13:36:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > It’s not any different than the trope of the nerdy, unattractive guy getting the beautiful girl, or people from widely different economic classes marrying. \*\* Those things don’t happen very often in real life either, \*\*but are common in American tv and cinema. Are you sure about this? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/34 "2018-10-03T13:37:53Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Cite? > And, has been stated, it’s just a version of the ‘underdog’ trope. And guess what, girls are, for the most part, perceived as the underdogs in athletics. > > And the fact that you’re worried that Disney is setting up the poor women for future disappointment is a part of that. > > Do you have a problem with all ‘underdog’ stories, or just the ones that show girls winning? Do we need to teach our young boys who may be weaker/less popular that despite what they see on (some random TV show) they in fact can’t overcome the stronger more dominant asshole and they should set their sights lower, or is it just our daughters who need to be reminded? > > Goliath and David, not Goliath and Dianne! If I might jump in, I think thats a tough one because you often hear “You can be or do anything you want” or “Follow your dreams” when in truth thats not really good advice because it often sets you upon the wrong path. Plus it often means people get set up by persons or groups who just want there money. OTOH I hate to stomp down a persons desires and drives to better themselves. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/35 "2018-10-03T13:51:47Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > Are you sure about this? Yup. > [@](#): > > Despite what Disney movies might tell you, it’s rare for people to hook up across classes. That’s because research shows that most of us just feel more comfortable dating people at similar educational and economic levels. In fact, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania have found that the tendency to marry within our education level has drastically increased since 1960. > **[The Truth About "Mixed-Collar" Dating — From the People Who Make These...](https://www.mic.com/articles/126124/the-truth-about-mixed-collar-dating)** > > Last summer, author Jon Birger published Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game, which essentially argues that today's dating market is suffering from a so-called "man shortage." Birger argues that this "shortage" can be... ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/36 "2018-10-03T15:00:24Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Yup. That was the theme of _Annie Get Your Gun_ as well. Which is really annoying as Annie Oakley’s real life relationship with her husband is completely different. As they both knew who’s the star attraction. And he step back to manage/support her career. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/37 "2018-10-03T16:26:03Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If I might jump in, I think thats a tough one because you often hear “You can be or do anything you want” or “Follow your dreams” when in truth thats not really good advice because it often sets you upon the wrong path. Plus it often means people get set up by persons or groups who just want there money. > > OTOH I hate to stomp down a persons desires and drives to better themselves. I think it’s a reasonable thing to say when children are small, but as they get older, it’s probably good parenting to teach them to realistically assess their chances and the consequences attached to various things and let them draw their own conclusions. That way, if little Billy decides that he wants to be a singer when he’s 5, you’re not crushing his dreams, but when he’s 15 and can’t make the school choir, hopefully you’ve taught him well enough that he’ll realize he’s not that good of a singer and hang it up, instead of being humiliated publicly on American Idol a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/38 "2018-10-03T17:44:49Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Finally I would like to add that girls usually switch back to girls teams or girls sports like softball because of scholarship issues. The chances of a girl getting a full ride scholarship in say softball, soccer, tennis or other sports is pretty good. > > In tennis for example few colleges even have mens tennis teams. ? - 251 of the 350 or so NCAA Division I schools have a men’s tennis program. Did you mean men’s volleyball, where only 150 NCAA schools in all three divisions put together have the sport, as opposed to 1072 that have women’s volleyball? There’s another reason girls don’t play on boys’ teams; in some states - California, for example - they’re not allowed to, if there’s a girls’ team in the same sport. (This wasn’t a rule in California until the early 1980s, I think. I assume it has something to do with Title IX; if you take away a boys’ opportunity to play because a spot on the “student” (i.e. boys) team is taken by a girl, but he would have made the girls’ team had be been a girl, then they are taking the boy’s opportunity to play away _solely because he is a boy_.) Note that the NCAA puts no such restriction on college teams. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/39 "2018-10-03T19:07:47Z")
I propose the “Truth in Hollywood” law (which will of course apply to all media) enforcing a strict adherence to statistics in movies and TV-shows. Any time an underdog is presented as winning the production company have to show that they are not skewing the impression a statistically aware viewer might get of the situation. For instance, if there is a only 1/10 chance of an event, they have to show their event doesn’t skew the statistics for all such events displayed in movies. If you want to show Stephen Hawking making a basketball penalty shot in 2008, and no one has shown him failing, you will have to release millions of other movies at the same time showing him failing to make the shot. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326/40 "2018-10-03T19:21:32Z")
I got a real-life example of one: a friend’s daughter was playing on monkey bars at a playground (she was around 10) when a group of boys of similar age, who’d been watching her, challenged her to a pull-up contest. The smaller kids dropped out quickly, the biggest one got to about 12 before he couldn’t continue. The girl, who’s been taking gymnastics for years and was (and is) damn near elite, got to 28 before she stopped out of boredom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tv-trope-of-girls-beating-boys-in-sports/822326.md?page=3)