# The two Three-Body Problems problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [February 11, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443 "2024-02-11T22:01:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/21 "2024-04-01T16:35:34Z")
I know I read all three but somehow I don’t even remember the third. I think I must have been going the motions of reading it … Part of the interest for me though was that “Chinese way of SF” lens. The Netflix show is fine but more is Westernized than just who and where the main characters are. Although even the first book is hazy in my mind at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/22 "2024-04-02T00:08:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Although even the first book is hazy in my mind at this point. Which is why, having seen the series, I’m re-reading it! ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/23 "2024-04-02T00:30:44Z")
I didn’t realize there were different versions. I have been really enjoying the Netflix one, I really hope they don’t “last season of games of thrones” it. I may go back and watch the Tencent version after the Netflix one is done. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/24 "2024-04-02T02:20:12Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I may go back and watch the Tencent version after the Netflix one is done. I understand all the Cultural Revolution stuff was removed from that version, which IMO would destroy it. But I’ll be interested to hear what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/25 "2024-04-02T03:04:07Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I understand all the Cultural Revolution stuff was removed from that version Bear in mind that the author himself moved the worst parts about the cultural revolution deep into the Chinese version of the book, but then pulled them back forward in the English translation. But yeah, either way, it was important to the English language version ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/26 "2024-04-02T13:32:15Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > > [@Askance](#): > > > > Are you including the concept of the Wall Facers in that? > > It seems like the sophons can go up to anyone (including the wallfacers, presumably) and drive them crazy or project illusions into their minds or blow up to the size of a planet or a million other things. Or maybe not, maybe they can just tell their minions to shoot people? It’s really not well-defined in the TV series, but maybe it’s spelled out more specifically in the books. I guess that’s ok in that we know they are powerful, not all powerful, but we just don’t know to what extent. But it also feels a bit like Earth is getting invaded by the Thermians from Galaxy Quest. They don’t understand lying and deception (except it seems when the plot calls for it) to the point where they don’t understand Red Riding Hood is fiction. So why doesn’t Wade just show them clips from the “historical records” like War of the Worlds or Independence Day where humans obliterated past invaders? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/27 "2024-04-02T13:49:23Z")
They now understand that humans lie. They are smart enough to look up what was created as a lie, a fiction, in other sources. What they do not have is having their intelligence driven to no small degree by an arms race of being good at lying and good at detecting lies. I feel dense that even knowing what she was trying to get across I don’t understand the message of the joke? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/28 "2024-04-02T15:53:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They don’t understand lying and deception (except it seems when the plot calls for it) to the point where they don’t understand Red Riding Hood is fiction. I thought the “we don’t understand fiction” thing was dumb. Does that mean they thought that Isaac Newton and Alan Turing lived at the same time on a planet with three suns? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/29 "2024-04-02T21:52:44Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Does that mean they thought that Isaac Newton and Alan Turing lived at the same time on a planet with three suns? Those were other players in the game - they all had historical reference names. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/30 "2024-04-02T22:03:18Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Those were other players in the game - they all had historical reference names. Then I guess it was really Kubla Khan and Henry VIII who lived on a trisolar planet. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/31 "2024-04-02T22:10:19Z")
The characters said something to the effect of “the headset is pulling the setting out of my head”, and they each declared what their avatar’s name would be. The other players were players on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/32 "2024-04-04T02:38:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > They now understand that humans lie. They are smart enough to look up what was created as a lie, a fiction, in other sources. > > What they do not have is having their intelligence driven to no small degree by an arms race of being good at lying and good at detecting lies. > > I feel dense that even knowing what she was trying to get across I don’t understand the message of the joke? I think I get it now, but only after reading the Wikipedia notes on the next book. Like I get the Trisolarans have no concept of “lying” because they communicate telepathically and are unable to convey a message that is incongruous with what they are thinking. But surely they must have a concept of “skepticism” - that information can potentially be wrong or incomplete. I don’t know. Knowing what the aliens are capable of I feel like their plan for Earth doesn’t really make sense. It seems unnecessarily subtle and convoluted ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/33 "2024-04-06T03:38:50Z")
I know it doesn’t play out this way but I wonder if the Netflix show did an intentional misdirection: It is only after the Shan Ti have stated that humans must be taught to fear more for their own good that they tell that they do not understand lying and then do a variety of things that scare humanity. A viewer concluding that they actually do know how to lie and are lying, in order to make humanity more fearful as they believe is in both humanity’s and their best interests, could be understood. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/34 "2024-04-06T04:10:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is only after the Shan Ti have stated that humans must be taught to fear more for their own good… The YouTube channel PBS Space Time did an interesting episode on the game theory behind the premise in the “Three Body Problem”. It explains why being taught to fear might be the rational option. 16 minutes: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aXYf47euE3U/maxresdefault.jpg "Dark Forest: Should We NOT Contact Aliens?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXYf47euE3U) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443/35 "2024-04-11T02:47:16Z")
I’m rewatching the series. Concerning the San-Ti not being able to understand lying or fiction, I think this is one of the biggest flubs on the screenwriter’s part. IIRC, in the book, the aliens understood fiction and allegory. But they were incapable of deceiving each other, since they communicate telepathically in some way. I’m not sure why the concept of lying would elude them, and yet… they understood it well enough to articulate it and their distrust of it to Mike Evans in their correspondence. It should’ve been something that was colored in a bit more, logically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-three-body-problems-problem/997443.md?page=1)