# The Two Towers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896 "2002-08-28T03:52:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YTMezoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@YTMezoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YTMezoan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/1 "2002-08-28T03:52:39Z")
In The Two Towers by J.R.R. Tolkien, which two towers are being refered to? My brother and I are in the midst of an argument whether the two are Minas Tirith/Minas Morgul or Isengard/Barad Dur. If anyone can provide proof, that’d be even better. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/2 "2002-08-28T04:28:11Z")
Well, according to [here](http://members.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/2towers.htm), it could certainly be Orthanc and Barad-dur. Or, it could be Minas Tirith and Barad-dur. Or, it could be Orthanc and Cirith Ungol. Or, it could be Orthanc and Minas Morgul. Probably the “clearest” reference is the following: > [@](#): > > “I am not at all happy about the title `the Two Towers’. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading.” ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/3 "2002-08-28T04:58:55Z")
The two towers are Saurons and Sauromans towers. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/4 "2002-08-28T05:00:58Z")
According to Peter Jackson in the commentary on the FOTR DVD, it refers to Orthanc and Minas Morgul, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/5 "2002-08-28T05:28:03Z")
Damn, don’t have my copy here but the very last part of the text in FOTR (in italics in my edition) says something like "the next volume of the Lord of the Rings is called “Two Towers” as it deals with Orthanc and Minas Morgul. Tolkien’s original sketch for the cover of the Two Towers clearly shows Orthanc (there’s a drawing of the White Hand - Saruman’s symbol below it) and Minas Morgul (there’s a drawing of the moon under it). Once again: Somebody please help, I’ve turned into a Tolkien geek ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/6 "2002-08-28T05:34:13Z")
Am I misremembering, or isn’t Minas Morgul the guard tower _at_ Cirith Ungol? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/7 "2002-08-28T05:37:54Z")
Since this is about a book, I’ll move this thread to our arts forum, Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/8 "2002-08-28T05:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Am I misremembering, or isn’t Minas Morgul the guard tower _at_ Cirith Ungol? \*\* No, you are misremembering. Minas Morgul is the city in the Morgul Vale at the base of the mountains that was previously called Minas Ithil. I can’t recall the name of the tower at the entrance to Cirith Ungol but I’ll get back to you. Damn, got suckered in again! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/9 "2002-08-28T10:41:06Z")
> [@](#): > > SPOOFE: According to Peter Jackson in the commentary on the FOTR DVD, it refers to Orthanc and Minas Morgul, I believe. Considering that the DVD with commentary doesn’t come out until November, where did you hear this? Lucky sod. Anyway, you misheard, because… > [@](#): > > Darwin’s Finch: Well, according to here, it could certainly be Orthanc and Barad-dur That’s what Peter Jackson decided to go with. Those two are named in the voiceover by Galadriel/Cate Blanchett in the trailer to TTT. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/10 "2002-08-28T11:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Considering that the DVD with commentary doesn’t come out until November, where did you hear this? On the currently-released DVD, there’s a featurette of the making of TTT, and Peter Jackson talks about it. I could be misremembering Minas Morgul, though. It’s been a few weeks… uh, days… uh, hours since I’ve watched the DVD. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/11 "2002-08-28T14:11:39Z")
Really ambiguous [http://greenbooks.theonering.net/questions/files/030100.html#whattwotowers](http://greenbooks.theonering.net/questions/files/030100.html#whattwotowers) > [@](#): > > By looking in the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien you can learn much more about his personal thoughts on this: > > > [@](#): > > > > “The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 & 4; and can be left ambiguous-it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dûr, or to Minas Tirith and B; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol (1).” [Letter #140] ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/12 "2002-08-28T14:16:32Z")
On my most recent reading, I came to the revelation that the The Two Towers also refers to Frodo and Aragorn. (As in, towers of strength for those around them.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/13 "2002-08-28T18:11:40Z")
The Two Towers trailer, Galadriel says there is an alliance between the Two Towers, Orthanc and Barad-dur. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/14 "2002-08-28T18:15:31Z")
I think most readers (myself included) always assumed they were Barad-Dur and Orthanc. I hope the bookends for TTT special DVD are both towers. That would be cool. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-two-towers/125896/15 "2002-08-28T20:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t recall the name of the tower at the entrance to Cirith Ungol but I’ll get back to you. That’s easy. It’s called the tower of Cirith Ungol. Minas Morgul (Tower of Sorcery) is the city which was once Minas Ithil (Tower of the Moon), sister city to Minas Tirith (Tower of Guard), then called Minas Arnor (Tower of the Sun). Cirith Ungol (Spider Pass) is a pass in the mountains near Minas Morgul, and has another tower guarding over the east (Mordor) end of that pass. Frodo and Sam did their best to avoid Minas Morgul, and they were warned against drinking any water that flowed from there. The tower of Cirith Ungol is where Frodo ended up being imprisoned.