# The U.P. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747 "2004-12-14T06:06:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/1 "2004-12-14T06:06:35Z")
How did the UP end up being part of Michigan instead of Wisconsin? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/2 "2004-12-14T06:10:55Z")
This site should tell you what you need to know. [http://www.geocities.com/lukefisk.geo/history.html](http://www.geocities.com/lukefisk.geo/history.html) "One of the most frequent questions I get from people regarding the history of the Upper Peninsula is the events surrounding the Toledo War. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, it involves a great war that took place between members of Michigan’s territorial militia and Ohio’s military forces. Eventually all of the Upper Peninsula was awarded to the state of Michigan as a comprise to the battle between the two states. Here is some more information regarding the great Toledo War: The battle began around 1778 when the boundaries were drawn after the Northwest Ordinance was enacted. Boundary lines were mis-drawn and surveyors drew the boundary from the southern tip of Lake Michigan due east to Lake Erie. It was determined that the line was actually much further north than it should’ve been. A later survey eventually established the correct boundary between Ohio and Michigan, but Ohio would not relinquish control of the “Toledo Strip,” a thin strip of land (a total of only 486 square miles) that fell in between the two boundary drawings. It would be a battle the two “territories” would fight over for nearly 50 years ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/3 "2004-12-14T06:56:54Z")
Initially, Michigan considered itself the sore loser in the Toledo War. It surrendered a good port on Lake Erie with a navigable river (Maumee) extending into the interior of Indiana along with some rich farmland for a few thousands of acres of “wilderness.” Then iron and copper were discovered in the U.P. and suddenly Michigan decided that Toledo was not _that_ valuable. The decision to join the two peninsulas was not as wild an idea as it might seem. Everything west and north of Lake Michigan was deemed “wilderness” and there was no specific natural association of the U.P. to any more western lands. (For a while, the Michigan Territory included Wisconsin and parts of Minnesota, Illinois,and Iowa.) Michigan was already campaigning to become a state by 1832, (the Toledo War took place the next year), being finally admitted in 1837, but Wisconsin did not have a population large enough to organize as a territory until 1836. There was also a strong connection between Detroit and Mackinac Island (off the U.P. coast) and the Soo (Sault Ste. Marie) with the three locations being important stopping points in the fur trade. There was a constant movement of people among them so that there was a natural association when people began looking for lands to group together as a state. (BTW, the casualty list for the Toledo War has occasionally been reported as a couple of busted skulls (fistfights), one milk cow, and one fractured arm (when the woman who owned the deceased cow broke the arm of the guy who shot it). ) ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/4 "2004-12-14T15:09:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Initially, Michigan considered itself the sore loser in the Toledo War. It surrendered a good port on Lake Erie with a navigable river (Maumee) extending into the interior of Indiana along with some rich farmland for a few thousands of acres of “wilderness.” Then iron and copper were discovered in the U.P. and suddenly Michigan decided that Toledo was not _that_ valuable. Don’t let 'em fool you. They’d STILL rather have Toledo than the UP, as is demonstrated by the lack of state funding that makes its way past the bridge and how state maps often just leaves the UP out (of course, that’s not even just a downstate MI thing - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a map of the US on the news or in a magazine and the UP simply ain’t there.) They’re also still upset that we all like the Packers instead of the Lions. I wish they’d just be done with it and make us part of Wisconsin. From my seat in the central UP, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis are all closer to me than Detroit. Indeed, I’ve never been to Detroit in my life, other than to fly through. I’m much more familiar with Wisconsin and Minnesota than downstate Michigan. Why the hell we belong to Michigan is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/5 "2004-12-14T18:13:55Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Why the hell we belong to Michigan is beyond me. So Wisconsin has another border to set up beer/cheese/sex/firework shops along. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/6 "2004-12-14T18:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=Athena] I wish they’d just be done with it and make us part of Wisconsin. [QUOTE] Well Soo, Ontario might like to marry up the cities. Why not have the UP join Ontario? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/7 "2004-12-14T18:38:37Z")
> [@CuriousCanuck](#): > > Why not have the UP join Ontario? 🙂 At least then when I am back in my home town for the holidays next week I can gamble at par at Kiwadin Casino. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/8 "2004-12-14T18:55:12Z")
> [@CuriousCanuck](#): > > Well Soo, Ontario might like to marry up the cities. Why not have the UP join Ontario? 🙂 Be still my beating heart, and sign me up for that one, please. The way the US is going I’d love to be an official Canuck. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/9 "2004-12-14T23:06:49Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Don’t let 'em fool you. They’d STILL rather have Toledo than the UP Wrong. I’ve lived in Michigan almost my whole life. I’ve been to the UP and I’ve been to Toledo and believe me, we got the better part of the deal. Now if the UP was going to join Canada, I might just pack my bags and run across the bridge! ---
**Author:** ![PigBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@PigBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigBoy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/10 "2004-12-14T23:45:39Z")
From **Shagnasty** ’s cite: > [@](#): > > Boundary lines were mis-drawn and surveyors drew the boundary from the southern tip of Lake Michigan due east to Lake Erie. Is this supposed to mean that the correct boundary was from the southern tip of Lake Michigan due east to Lake Erie? Looking at a map of the present Ohio/Michigan border, it appears that the line would have gone from the southern end of Lake Michigan to Lake Erie, just not quite in the right direction. So if that’s the mistake, why is the border between Michigan and Indiana not in the “correct” place? Did Michigan lose land to Indaina, too? Did they not care? (No Gary War? 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/11 "2004-12-14T23:56:25Z")
> [@Odinoneeye](#): > > Wrong. I’ve lived in Michigan almost my whole life. I’ve been to the UP and I’ve been to Toledo and believe me, we got the better part of the deal. > > Now if the UP was going to join Canada, I might just pack my bags and run across the bridge! I’ve lived in Michigan my whole life. And, I’ve also been to Toledo. I wouldn’t consider the value of Toledo all that great. 😉 As for the UP joining Canada, I’ll follow you. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/12 "2004-12-15T03:43:28Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Why the hell we belong to Michigan is beyond me. It’s not our fault that some bit of icy wilderness got attached to the real part of the state somehow! ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/13 "2004-12-15T04:11:21Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > From my seat in the central UP, Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis are all closer to me than Detroit. Indeed, I’ve never been to Detroit in my life, other than to fly through. I’m much more familiar with Wisconsin and Minnesota than downstate Michigan. Why the hell we belong to Michigan is beyond me. Well, if you had more than about 10 people living up there, you might be able to organize your own state or something. As it is, when my brother and his wife go up to the U.P. to visit her parents, the population of Marquette doubles 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Daver914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Daver914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daver914)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/14 "2004-12-15T05:55:15Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I’ve lived in Michigan my whole life. And, I’ve also been to Toledo. I wouldn’t consider the value of Toledo all that great. 😉 As for the UP joining Canada, I’ll follow you. Hey, Toledo’s not _that_ bad! We’ve got the Erie Street Market, and the Valentine Theater, and, uh… ah… ah, the hell with it, the U.P.'s better. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/15 "2004-12-15T06:18:39Z")
> [@PigBoy](#): > > From **Shagnasty** ’s cite: > > (No Gary War? 😃 ) If you’d seen _The Music Man,_ you’d have known that Gary didn’t exist then. It was conjured up from a dismal swamp many years later. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/16 "2004-12-15T15:01:40Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Well, if you had more than about 10 people living up there, you might be able to organize your own state or something. As it is, when my brother and his wife go up to the U.P. to visit her parents, the population of Marquette doubles 😛 Well then tell them to STAY AWAY! Marquette’s plenty big as it is, we don’t need no trolls stinking it up! If we could figure out a way to build an economic base from selling snow or something, we’d be our own state. Superiorland! As to all you who value the UP over Toledo, I appreciate the sentiment but I think you represent a small and intelligent minority. Lemme know when you’re looking for an endorsement to get over the bridge; I’ll let 'em know you’re OK. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/17 "2004-12-15T17:39:52Z")
> [@Daver914](#): > > Hey, Toledo’s not _that_ bad! We’ve got the Erie Street Market, and the Valentine Theater, and, uh… ah… ah, the hell with it, the U.P.'s better. Hey, the Toledo Zoo’s nice. . . and the Mudhen’s you have them, too. Jeez, it takes a Detroiter to help a Toledo-ite appreciate what he’s got! ---
**Author:** ![byomtoob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@byomtoob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byomtoob)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/18 "2004-12-15T17:45:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > This site should tell you what you need to know. > > [http://www.geocities.com/lukefisk.geo/history.html](http://www.geocities.com/lukefisk.geo/history.html) > > "One of the most frequent questions I get from people regarding the history of the Upper Peninsula is the events surrounding the Toledo War. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, it involves a great war that took place between members of Michigan’s territorial militia and Ohio’s military forces. Eventually all of the Upper Peninsula was awarded to the state of Michigan as a \*\*comprise \*\* to the battle between the two states. Here is some more information regarding the great Toledo War: How in any way was this a “compromise”? Had Ohio made claims on the U.P? Otherwise, what did they give up? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/19 "2004-12-15T17:55:14Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > How in any way was this a “compromise”? Had Ohio made claims on the U.P? Otherwise, what did they give up? From that link: “Eventually the dispute was settled by the United States Congress in 1835. For Michigan to receive statehood, they needed to give up their fight for the Toledo Strip, in which they did. As compensation, Michigan received a majority of the Upper Peninsula - while Ohio finally gained control of the small strip of land that the two sides were fighting over for years, which included the city of Toledo, Ohio. At first, the new state of Michigan was outraged over the deal. Instead of getting a highly populated strip of land (which included Toledo), Michigan received an un-inhabited, wildered chunck of property. At that time, they didn’t even know what the Upper Peninsula comprised of. As they began exploring this new land, they quickly learned how valuable the Upper Peninsula really was - and didn’t think the compromise for the Toledo Strip was really all that bad.” Michigan wanted to become a state. Ohio didn’t give up anything, but Congress gave Michigan most of the UP, and made Michigan a state, to settle the dispute. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747/20 "2004-12-15T18:01:32Z")
> [@byomtoob](#): > > How in any way was this a “compromise”? Had Ohio made claims on the U.P? Otherwise, what did they give up? Ohio got to keep the “Toledo Strip”. Michigan got the entire UP in return for giving up the claim to the Strip. This [map](http://www.sos.state.mi.us/history/museum/explore/museums/hismus/prehist/settling/images/maptole.gif) shows it about as clearly as anything on the web that I’ve found. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-p/279747.md?page=2)