# The U.S. Becomes Isolationist: What Happens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908 "2014-01-04T22:56:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/61 "2014-01-07T12:26:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Is there now or has there ever been in the entire history of the world a problem with pirates in the deep ocean? Every single piracy problem I can find that has ever existed was in coastal waters or enclosed seas like the Caribbean. > > Pirates do not and never have been in the habit of intercepting cargo ships way off in deep waters, and if they suddenly developed the ability to do so there’s little the U.S. Navy could do about it, just as the U.S. Navy has struggled to do anything about piracy off the Somalian coast. > > Seriously, where is this massive American anti-piracy effort? What on earth are you talking about? Piracy off the Somali coast has dropped significantly since the formation of the task force.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/62 "2014-01-07T12:33:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Exactly how much anti-piracy action does the U.S. Navy engage in? We’ve already discussed the Somali task force. What do you want? I suspect you want to create some impossible to find criteria for determining how much the US spends on anti-piracy efforts. But, maybe you actually are asking this question in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/63 "2014-01-07T13:05:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yeah, but what threatens that flow? Somali pirates? Every power with a navy now has the **same interest** in keeping the sea lanes open. What are the countries around Somalia? Please, tell me about their navies and how they are able to project power into Somali sea space. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/64 "2014-01-07T14:10:59Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > “You (Japan) depend on this trade as much as we (China) do. But we can shut it off, and you can’t do shit about it, plus, we think we can hold out longer than you can. Give us money/materials/favorable conditions, or else. Let’s just _see_ who can hold out longer.” > > It’s been done numerous times throughout history. A country shooting itself in the foot is not a new phenomenon. There are no good reasons to think that China will decide not to do so in the future, in the absence of the US Navy. Jesus, wait a minute; you’re saying the existence of the US Navy forces China to trade with Japan? If China wants to stop trading with Japan, what does anyone’s navy have to do with it? > [@](#): > > We’ve already discussed the Somali task force. You mean the _multinational_ task force? I realize the US Navy contributes mightily to it but surely the other 28 nations could send a few more destroyers if the U.S. decided not to? And I’ll again ask where the big problem with deep ocean piracy is. The U.S. Navy is not designed to be a globe-spanning anti-piracy force. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/65 "2014-01-07T14:35:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You mean the _multinational_ task force? I realize the US Navy contributes mightily to it but surely the other 28 nations could send a few more destroyers if the U.S. decided not to? Oh, this ought to be good. Please tell me which of the other nations have destroyers, which of those nations can afford to supply destroyers off the Somail coast, and please enlighten me as to how they supply those destroyers while they are there? > [@](#): > > And I’ll again ask where the big problem with deep ocean piracy is. The U.S. Navy is not designed to be a globe-spanning anti-piracy force. It’s just a feature. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/66 "2014-01-07T15:00:59Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Oh, this ought to be good. Please tell me which of the other nations have destroyers, which of those nations can afford to supply destroyers off the Somail coast, and please enlighten me as to how they supply those destroyers while they are there? Some of these: > **[Operation Atalanta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atalanta)** > > 2009 > 2010 > 2012 or these > **[Operation Ocean Shield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield)** > >  NATO > Non-NATO: > 2011 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/67 "2014-01-07T15:09:17Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Some of these: > > [Operation Atalanta - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atalanta) > or these > > [Operation Ocean Shield - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ocean_Shield) And who are the vast majority of destroyers listed in your own cites? And who provided the logistical train? Because the only destroyer I can see that could have provided its own logistical train is possibly one Russian ship (and I’m going to need evidence that it did). ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/68 "2014-01-07T15:24:31Z")
All right. Bleah. Holidays are over, and this place consume too much of my time when I’m supposed to be working, so I have a rule that I can’t be on here when I’m supposed to be working. Anyway, have fun, and Happy New Year! ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/69 "2014-01-07T15:27:31Z")
I’m not sure why you’re fixated on"destroyers", perhaps it’s your decades of experience in matters navel? I think you’re a little overexcited about the intentions and capabilities of these pirates. Navies tend to send along ships appropriate to the action e.g. discouraging/blowing up the odd skiff - see the earlier photo. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/70 "2014-01-07T15:32:49Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > I understand that the island is frequently reconquered by the opposing military forces (who are never both there at the same time). The “reconquering” consists of tearing down the opposing flag, raising their own, and leaving some gifts for their adversaries to find when next they come. So it’s a cross between “capture the flag” and leaving your calling card in the mailbox at the top of the mountain? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/71 "2014-01-07T16:08:38Z")
We’ve pulled out of Iraq and it has become more peaceful. Right? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/72 "2014-01-07T16:35:37Z")
If you thought the US pulled out of Iraq because the various Sunni and Shiite factions were reconciled, I’ve got some bad news … ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/73 "2014-01-07T18:50:32Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Oh, this ought to be good. Please tell me which of the other nations have destroyers.;… Er, most of them? (If you’re going to quibble that some of the ships are technically called “Frigates,” have at it; everyone knows there’s not a clear line between the two. A Type 23 frigate, or a Halifax-class frigate, are powerful blue water warships.) > [@](#): > > which of those nations can afford to supply destroyers off the Somail coast, and please enlighten me as to how they supply those destroyers while they are there? I would imagine the multinational force could scrounge up a few more bucks and some of those countries do have supply ships. We’re talking about some of the richest countries in the world. They’ll spend the money necessary for their own security and interests. I don’t deny the U.S. Navy is the finest in the world and it would cost more for the rest of the world to make up for its absence, but it’s quite doable. The pirates are not going to rise up and control the high seas. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/74 "2014-01-07T20:50:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Jesus, wait a minute; you’re saying the existence of the US Navy forces China to trade with Japan? No, not at all. Go read my post again. > [@](#): > > If China wants to stop trading with Japan, what does anyone’s navy have to do with it? Nothing. That’s _your_ misreading of my post. It’s not my mistake. As I said, go read my post again. I was merely responding to the suggestion (yours, I believe) that China would never under any circumstances try to cut off Japan’s trade, because it would hurt them, too. Per my scenario, they might. But with the US Navy around, all they can do is stop their _own_ trading with Japan. If the US goes away, per the OP, they can also stop Japan from trading with _anyone else_, either. Two entirely different scenarios. The second of which is not possible with the US Navy around to prevent them from blockading Japan. ---
**Author:** ![XweAponX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7993a0/32.png) [@XweAponX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XweAponX)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/75 "2014-01-07T23:09:41Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Good for you! Now see if you can reason out what happens if the US suddenly stops protecting that Panamanian ship on its way from China to Europe. And if you get that, see if you can reason out what happens to international shipping generally if the US stops protecting non-US flagged ships. > > Come on. I’m sure you can do it. "Protecting "or extracting fees from? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/76 "2014-01-07T23:17:02Z")
Life would go on, the slaves take the US holds internationally (under economic pressure) would be free and perhaps better themselves in time, but the people of the US on the lower end of the class system would have much less without the international slave labor. Additionally it is questionable if the US would be allowed to have orbiting satellites over other countries and that could (soon) be enforced. So good -by GPS or at least surrendering GPS to nations that play well together. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/77 "2014-01-07T23:57:02Z")
If the US became isolationist, militarily-speaking, it would create a huge power vacuum. I have not noticed that such vacuums lead to greater stability. Eventually, a new balance of power will be struck, but things will be messy until then. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908/78 "2014-01-08T00:41:34Z")
> [@XweAponX](#): > > "Protecting "or extracting fees from? Cite that the US government gets any fees from anybody else in the world to do anything on the water? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-becomes-isolationist-what-happens/677908.md?page=3)