# The U.S Military vs. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024 "2004-08-22T23:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/21 "2004-08-23T20:56:42Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Or vice versa? 😉 That’s _cheating!_ Which is very unsportsman-like. My example is merely over-kill, not cheating, since it doesn’t change the final outcome. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/22 "2004-08-23T21:41:55Z")
Okay… Da entire U.S. military 'ginst Ditka. Who wince? ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/23 "2004-08-23T23:33:36Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > Okay… Da entire U.S. military 'ginst Ditka. Who wince? Da Bulls. Gimme 'nother sausich… ---
**Author:** ![Eegba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Eegba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eegba)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/24 "2004-08-24T02:23:23Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > Well, it would depend on if Batman were prepared or not. Thank you **RandomLetters** and **pravnik**. I opened this thread specifically looking for that response. You have made my day… ---
**Author:** ![F14Scott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed655f/32.png) [@F14Scott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F14Scott)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/25 "2004-08-24T05:05:18Z")
> [@Kilt-wearin' man](#): > > …the Phoenix is a long-range air-to-air missile and can only be launched from the F-14 Tomcat - they were pretty much a “one trick pony”, intended to protect the carrier task force from Soviet bombers at extreme long range… The original AIM-54As were best used against a bomber threat, but current AIM-54Cs are very effective against maneuvering fighter-sized targets. It’s a hell of a missile that will go away with the last of the F-14s and has not been replaced. The AMRAAM is a great missile, but it doesn’t have the legs of the Phoenix. ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/26 "2004-08-24T13:03:48Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > That’s _cheating!_ Which is very unsportsman-like. My example is merely over-kill, not cheating, since it doesn’t change the final outcome. 😉 Cough splutter…how do you think the British empire was founded if not by unsportsman-like acts? Do you think Wolfe or Cornwallis would have refused a squadron of Challenger tanks as being unsporting? A Blackadder quote is in order, I think: Edmund: Well, you see, George, I did like it, back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns – even spears made us think twice. The kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass. George: Now, come off it, sir – what about M’boto Gorge, for heaven’s sake? Edmund: Yes, that was a bit of a nasty one – ten thousand D’watushi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and guava halves. After the battle, instead of taking prisoners, we simply made a huge fruit salad. No, when I joined up, I never imagined anything as awful as this war. I’d had fifteen years of military experience, perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying “Do you do it doggy-doggy?” in Swahili, and then suddenly four-and-a-half million heavily armed Germans hove into view. That was a shock, I can tell you. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/27 "2004-08-25T16:04:31Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Possibly, but the site didn’t exactly send the Taliban or Iraqis running for the hills all at once. They already live in caves in the hills. Where do you run to from there? Besides, they have seen tanks before when the Russians were in town. At the very least, they are familiar with the CONCEPT that there are large metal tracked vehicles with guns. Imagine the Cornwallis coming over the hill and witnessing the site of 200 Abrahms tanks and Bradley personal carriers for the first time, never having seen a car before, much less a tank. > [@](#): > > But who “wins” a fight depends on what the objectives of the fight are. The objective, for the purpose of this exercise, is to entertain us. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/28 "2004-08-25T16:10:59Z")
What a fun thread! My question: How many modern tanks would you have to give the Confederacy in order for the South to win the Civil War? I’m thinking maybe 3, assuming that somehow you were able to arm and refuel them. But what I’m not sure about is whether a Union cannoneer could get a lucky shot and take out a modern tank. If not, perhaps only one would have turned the tide. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/29 "2004-08-25T16:27:40Z")
> [@vl\_mungo](#): > > A couple of months ago the GQ forum discussed how long it would take today’s U.S military to take down Hitler’s Germany, assuming they had to start on D-Day 1944, and use conventional weapons. It was generally agreed that once the forces were martialled, it would have been pretty much a walkover. > Okay, lets pit today’s U.S. military against someone else… the U.S. Military circa Vietnam. You’d figure that today’s military would pretty much kick the asses of their compatriots of 30 years ago… but how do the ordinances stack up? I realize this is kinda beside the point but… what’s the strategic situation of USM 2004 versus USM vietnam? 😉 Do we picture two identical western hemispheres on the planet (as it were,) with the USA on each declaring total war on each other, except for nuclear armaments?? If so, I’d say that it probably is a fairly definite victory for 2004, but I’d imagine quite bloody… until the vietnam-era president issued a surrender, which I’d assume 2004 would probably accept. Similar questions apply to the other US vs US matchups and so on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/30 "2004-08-25T17:30:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What a fun thread! My question: How many modern tanks would you have to give the Confederacy in order for the South to win the Civil War? I’m thinking maybe 3, assuming that somehow you were able to arm and refuel them. But what I’m not sure about is whether a Union cannoneer could get a lucky shot and take out a modern tank. If not, perhaps only one would have turned the tide. That “lucky shot” would have to involve a cannonball plugging the tank barrel just as the gunner pulls the trigger or something equally astronomically unlikely - modern tank armor would shrug off just about anything short of another tank gun or similar weapon. Civil war cannons were’nt known for their armor-piercing abilities - or their ability to track and hit targets moving at over 45 mph across the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/31 "2004-08-25T18:23:27Z")
I’m pretty sure Ewoks could kick our butts, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/32 "2004-08-25T18:33:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What a fun thread! My question: How many modern tanks would you have to give the Confederacy in order for the South to win the Civil War? I’m thinking maybe 3, assuming that somehow you were able to arm and refuel them. But what I’m not sure about is whether a Union cannoneer could get a lucky shot and take out a modern tank. If not, perhaps only one would have turned the tide. All the South would need to win the Civil War is a pile of Ak-47s and ammo. And maybe some Afrikaner mercenaries. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/33 "2004-08-25T19:11:09Z")
I just **knew** someone would mention that. > [@UncleBill](#): > > Friendly fire will probably always exist, as will accidents and illnesses. If you meant casualties inflicted by the enemy, this is a less likely event. This is true beyond words. I have two pals who were injured in Gulf War 1. Neither of them were in contact with the enemy. One was a base accident (broken wrist) and one was injured (broken leg) deploying during the first day of combat. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/34 "2004-08-25T20:31:17Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > All the South would need to win the Civil War is a pile of Ak-47s and ammo. And maybe some Afrikaner mercenaries. 🙂 Pft. We wouldn’t’ve needed no AK-47s if that damned runner hadn’t lost our battlefield plans. We had you beat! ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/35 "2004-08-25T20:48:55Z")
I had a thread quite a while ago that postulated a modern-day U.S. vs. the rest of the world scenario, in which all the rest of the world pooled resources and attempted to conquer the U.S.A. There was a lot of interesting discussion … I think the thread is too old to search, though. The consensus seemed to be that the U.S., surprisingly, could hold its own thanks to naval superiority. … Along the same lines, I have wondered about the following: what are the bare minimum technological requirements necessary for an extraterrestrial alien force to conquer _and successfully occupy_ the U.S., with no help or hindrance from the rest of the world? Is such technology conceivable, or do we have to resort to supernatural powers such as mind control and force fields? I should probably start new threads for these discussions in IMHO soemtime. If anyone else is intrigued, and cares to start such threads themselves, be my guest. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/36 "2004-08-25T21:21:34Z")
But remember that people can still dig tank traps with Civil War technology. And the commander of the tank has to look out every now and then, the tank must be supplied with fuel, ammo and spare parts, the crew must sleep, eat and drink. One tank could concievable crush enemy morale so severely in the first few battles it was used that the enemy would surrender and negotiate peace. But if the enemy keeps fighting, they will learn that the tank has weak points. Even if muzzle loading cannonballs don’t do much harm to the tank, digging trenches can still stop it. If the tank gets immobilized, you can always dump barrels of gunpowder on top of it and light. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/37 "2004-08-25T21:40:44Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But remember that people can still dig tank traps with Civil War technology. And the commander of the tank has to look out every now and then, the tank must be supplied with fuel, ammo and spare parts, the crew must sleep, eat and drink. > > One tank could concievable crush enemy morale so severely in the first few battles it was used that the enemy would surrender and negotiate peace. But if the enemy keeps fighting, they will learn that the tank has weak points. Even if muzzle loading cannonballs don’t do much harm to the tank, digging trenches can still stop it. If the tank gets immobilized, you can always dump barrels of gunpowder on top of it and light. The .50 caliber machine gun mounted on the turret can be fired from inside the tank with all hatches shut…not many guys will volunteer to be the second “keg carrier” for the gunpowder trick after witnessing the fate of the first… Besides, a lone tank without even infantry support is a rare thing indeed. Disable one, and you’ve still got other tanks, Bradleys, Apache helicopters, and armed Humvees to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/38 "2004-08-25T21:51:36Z")
While we’re on the subject, could a civil war - era cannon cause a tank to throw a track? They are relatively delicate compared to the turret and rest of the tank. > [@bordelond](#): > > Along the same lines, I have wondered about the following: what are the bare minimum technological requirements necessary for an extraterrestrial alien force to conquer and successfully occupy the U.S., with no help or hindrance from the rest of the world? Is such technology conceivable, or do we have to resort to supernatural powers such as mind control and force fields? Just taking from the list of conceivable (as in either in development today or potentially available in the near future) an alien race could have: -energy weapons -advanced AI controled weapons, drones, probes -electromagnetic “rail” guns -weapons fired from orbit -aircraft and tanks that exceed the performance of anything we have -advanced electronic countermeasures - EMP pulses, sonic “brown note generators”, whatever -powered body armor -troops and supplies rapidly deployed from orbit by Aliens-like “dropship” shuttles -Armor made from advanced materials It wouldn’t take many of these advances for an alien race to change the tempo of the battlefield so that our modern forces wouldn’t be able to effectively react. That’s what technology does. By increasing range, protection, speed, firepower, sensors, you change the dynamics of the battlefield and alter your enemies concept of time and space. A revolutionary war general plans for troops to move x miles a day and deliver y amount of fire on a target. A modern military commander plans for x mile an HOUR. The RW general can’t react to your menuvers in a reasonible timeframe. He’s figuring out how long to march on Albany while your mechanized force is already there. He needs to march 10,000 troops within 100 yards to attack. All of a sudden, you have guns that can reach out 1000yards or more. He can no longer even mount a successfull attack unless he radically changes his tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/39 "2004-08-25T22:20:00Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > I’m pretty sure Ewoks could kick our butts, though. 😉 Perhaps, [but they’re extinct](http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html), so I wouldn’t be losing any sleep over the matter. **msmith537** , you’re right about the Taliban, but remember that Cornwallis’s soldiers were professionals, so at least some of them could be expected to stand and be massacred. 😃 (Hell, no one finds it unbelievable in movies like _Independance Day_ when the rednecks start shooting at the aliens, so I don’t see why redcoats would be any different. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024/40 "2004-08-25T22:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by bordelond > Along the same lines, I have wondered about the following: what are the bare minimum technological requirements necessary for an extraterrestrial alien force to conquer and successfully occupy the U.S., with no help or hindrance from the rest of the world? Is such technology conceivable, or do we have to resort to supernatural powers such as mind control and force fields? Perhaps the aliens could use some sort of “death ray”? However, we had some pretty good death rays around 80 years ago we could dust off and use against the aliens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-u-s-military-vs/261024.md?page=3)