The U.S.: Setting a Good Example for the World (Detainees)

[Loopydude]

@RTFirefly

Look, if we’ve got a ticking time bomb, we’ve got to be able to resort to alternative interrogation methods!

Yeah! Like North Korea getting nuclear weapons! What if Kim Jong Il had the bomb, and we could stop it, huh? Wouldn’t you want that? What? Oh, fucknuts!

[glee]

@John Corrado

Unfortunately, it’s in the U.S.'s self-interest to spout that ‘rubbish’, because it’s in the U.S.'s best interest to keep Iran and North Korea from doing things that would be destructive to the U.S.'s business partners and business interests, but it’s an easier sell to the American public to do these things for ‘moral’ reasons.

I assure you that stuff like Guantanamo Bay / Abu Ghraib / Iraqi WMDs / CIA transition flights / waterboarding is noted in the UK.
We were fully with you after 9/11, followed into Afghanistan for good reason but our troops are now being killed in Iraq for no particular purpose.

As your closest allies, this is going to affect our future co-operation.

[elucidator]

Then we raise your rent.

[RTFirefly]

@John Corrado

You mean the same way they can’t sanction the tinhorn dictator, when they can’t get away with sanctioning China for doing the same things?

Sorry, dude. As much as you want this to have real world consequences for someone other than the detainees, it just doesn’t. No country gives a shit about morality, and no country ever will. Excuses for behavior will always be found, and burnished gold reasons to do what’s in the best interest will always be available.

The words are English, and they form sentences, but I can’t parse the logic. Try again?

[Terrifel]

Well, hey, listen: we’ve never been “The United States doesn’t torture people.”

[Der_Trihs]

@John Corrado

No country gives a shit about morality, and no country ever will.

The government may not, but the people often do, and in many countries they can influence the government.

@John Corrado

Unfortunately, it’s in the U.S.'s self-interest to spout that ‘rubbish’, because it’s in the U.S.'s best interest to keep Iran and North Korea from doing things that would be destructive to the U.S.'s business partners and business interests, but it’s an easier sell to the American public to do these things for ‘moral’ reasons.

It’s not in America’s best self interest, because it ( and other things ) makes America look dishonest. I think that we are well past the point where we can speak the simple truth and be disbelieved, simply because we are America and the world knows better than to believe us.

Even most amoral governments care about some aspects of morality, and trustworthiness is one of them. Even a dictator motivated by pure self interest is going to be reluctant to deal with us if he thinks we are lying to him or will stab him in the back as soon as possible.