# The Uber boycott **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539 "2017-01-29T22:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/121 "2017-06-26T13:49:56Z")
I love Uber, we use it probably 2-3 times a month. I’m in a mid-sized and growing city and you can’t just walk out onto the curb and hail a taxi like I do when in NYC. Around here, if you call for a taxi for pick-up at a residence or a local business you wait 30+ minutes and the costs are high and the quality of the cabs and drivers is bad. Naturally at the airport and at most of the larger hotels this isn’t the case for wait times. Anyhoo… with Uber I have a driver in minutes, the car/SUV is clean, and the driver is always friendly and courteous. And it costs me far less than taking a taxi. I’m not a fan of their CEO and I do wonder how much longer they can continue to burn money. But every driver I chat with is very positive about driving for Uber as a side-job. I don’t see that they’re being exploited, they choose to drive for Uber and agree to the terms of compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/122 "2017-06-26T14:10:12Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > At least mine isn’t just a big, winey, appeal to emotion. > [@Fenris](#): > > If you don’t leave the thread, my first WHITE MALE MIDDLE-CLASS PRIVILEGE punishment is to force you to drink domestic champagne So it _is_ winey after all! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/123 "2017-06-26T15:04:27Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > There’s pretty solid evidence that increase in the amount of ridesharing in a city is causally linked to a decrease in the rate of drunk driving and the rate of accidents as a result of drunk driving in the US. If my choice is more cars driven like cabs or more cars driven by drunks, I’ll choose the cabs. Cite? Not doubting, just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/124 "2017-06-26T15:22:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Cite? Not doubting, just curious. [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-driving-prevention.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/business/uber-drunk-driving-prevention.html) Apparently there is conflicting evidence. I do note that in the first instance that shows a positive impact it is comparing collisions and in the second instance that shows no impact it is comparing fatalities. Here is [another study](https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=742110126119071018107066110110019127062041020052054087069122085029067090031114110088102031125025020116062124080072090127112084057017017032053098081072120120014102009061056073019106004083103115076005004087099017088124120027117010095106030099122122103&EXT=pdf) that I can’t vouch for: > [@](#): > > Using U.S. county-level data from 2007 through 2014, we investigate > whether the introduction of the ride-sharing service, Uber, is associated with > changes in fatal vehicle crashes and crime. We find that Uber’s entry lowers the > rate of DUIs and fatal accidents. For most specifications, we also find declines in > arrests for assault and disorderly conduct. Conversely, we observe an increase in > vehicle thefts ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/125 "2017-06-26T18:18:51Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can someone show their work behind the idea that driving for Uber is worse than driving a taxi? > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > From talking to Uber drivers recently, I gather Uber keeps a cut of the fare and they get the rest. I’m really not sure how that’s any different from traditional taxis - or pizza delivery, for that matter. I found the analysis at this link to be fair and accurate - for this guy, on 60 hours, it works out to be a little below minimum wage: [How Much Does An Uber Driver In London Make A Year](http://uberdriverlondon.co.uk/is-it-worth-driving-for-uber-in-london/) When I was last aware, you could only tip unofficially on Uber and almost no one did. Obv. 10-15% at min wage is worth having. Another factor which some will be dubious about is you can’t hide a penny of earnings from the taxman on Uber - it’s all there on your driver statement, no cash earnings. That’s also significant if you’re on min wage, esp. if you have family. A little cash here and there goes a long way to buy the kids new trainers. Finally, it’s true that in markets where fares are not regulated there won’t necessarily be a significant difference in fare levels between Uber and other providers. However, one of the great concerns is ‘corporatising’ exploitation; no sickpay, no holiday pay, etc. It’s a return to early Victorian values by sharp operators consciously getting ahead of local legal rules though the mechanism of ‘technology’. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/126 "2017-06-27T00:24:36Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > However, one of the great concerns is ‘corporatising’ exploitation; no sickpay, no holiday pay, etc. It’s a return to early Victorian values by sharp operators consciously getting ahead of local legal rules though the mechanism of ‘technology’. As **Princhester** noted, that’s pretty much the deal Australian taxi drivers have anyway - and indeed, everyone else employed on a casual basis (which is a vast number of people). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/127 "2017-06-27T03:48:55Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Anyone who isn’t white in the USA and has so little regard for opportunity and working conditions of working class people is on some very weird, self-absorbed trip. Huh? As someone in the US who isn’t white this a really weird concept. Could you please explain this to me. Also, what do you mean by “working class”? If you’re talking about people without four year college degrees who work at non-salaried jobs that’s a whole ton of people working a very broad spectrum of jobs, many of whom are financially very well off. Journeyman plumbers for example make around 250,000 a year. I mean no insult to Bricker, but I suspect they make more money than Bricker. Perhaps you could clarify what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/128 "2017-06-27T04:01:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If you’re talking about people without four year college degrees who work at non-salaried jobs that’s a whole ton of people working a very broad spectrum of jobs, many of whom are financially very well off. > > Journeyman plumbers for example make around 250,000 a year. Do you have a cite for that $250,000/year figure? ETA: Because I have [a cite that says you’re off by approximately $200,000/year](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/Hourly_Rate). In fact, [I have two](https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Journeyman-Plumber-Salaries). [A third](http://www.plumberslocal3.org/wages.html) shows that even the highest paid Union Journeyman plumber (in Colorado) prolly makes at least $150,000/year less than you claimed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/129 "2017-06-27T04:29:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Do you have a cite for that $250,000/year figure? > > ETA: Because I have [a cite that says you’re off by approximately $200,000/year](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/Hourly_Rate). In fact, [I have two](https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Journeyman-Plumber-Salaries). [A third](http://www.plumberslocal3.org/wages.html) shows that even the highest paid Union Journeyman plumber (in Colorado) prolly makes at least $150,000/year less than you claimed. I was quoting from memory. I should have said “can make up to around 250,000 dollars a year”. From Time Magazine [http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html](http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html) > [@](#): > > Journeymen in cities such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston are in higher demand and command higher prices — up to about $250,000 a year. I should add part of the issue is that the term “plumber” can refer in and of itself to several different professions some of whom are self-employed some employed by others who’s salaries vary greatly. The point was many people who are clearly “working class” make a lot of money which isn’t meant to say there’s still some social stigma attached to it. After all “class” refers to not “economic status” but “socio-economic status”. Speaking of which, perhaps Up\_the\_Junction could explain the difference between “middle class” since he seems to have differing attitudes towards them. Not trying to catch him in a trap or play a stupid gotcha game but I always thought of them as two overlapping categories since some people are members of both By the way, what does “prolly” mean? I don’t believe I’ve seen it before. Is it slang for “probably”? If so, where did you pick it up? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/130 "2017-06-27T04:34:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > JFTR, **Bricker** isn’t white. Are you sure Bricker doesn’t identify as white? He’s from El Salvador originally IRRC and around 40% of all Hispanics in the US consider themselves “white”. Obviously if he thinks of himself as non-white I wouldn’t question him and especially if most people who know him think he’s non-white. Frankly it’s how other people treat you that IMHO determines whether or not you’re white. FTR, the US government officially classifies Iranians as white but I don’t consider myself white and I don’t think most people who met me would think I am though I have gotten mistaken for Hispanic on a few occasions and could probably convince people I was Italian-American if I really felt like it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/131 "2017-06-27T04:43:51Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I found the analysis at this link to be fair and accurate - for this guy, on 60 hours, it works out to be a little below minimum wage: [How Much Does An Uber Driver In London Make A Year](http://uberdriverlondon.co.uk/is-it-worth-driving-for-uber-in-london/) Color me dubious. For one, you didn’t show that being a taxi driver was better. For two, a person working 60 hours a week in a rented car doesn’t match my experience with Uber/Lyft. My typical experience is someone doing a part time gig driving their own car. This is obviously unscientific, but just from experience I rarely encounter a Uber/Lyft driver that seems unhappy. They are usually chipper and somewhat talkative. Taxi drivers, on the other hand, always seem to be some level of pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/132 "2017-06-27T05:29:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Huh? > > As someone in the US who isn’t white this a really weird concept. Could you please explain this to me. > > Also, what do you mean by “working class”? > > If you’re talking about people without four year college degrees who work at non-salaried jobs that’s a whole ton of people working a very broad spectrum of jobs, many of whom are financially very well off. > > Journeyman plumbers for example make around 250,000 a year. I mean no insult to Bricker, but I suspect they make more money than Bricker. > > Perhaps you could clarify what you meant. Interesting. Looking at the second section in this link, there seems to be a different meaning in the USA: [Working class - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/133 "2017-06-27T05:53:08Z")
Working class is short for working class poor, I believe. It’s the upper lower class. So you have Upper, Middle and Lower classes, and then each is divided into Upper and Lower. So you have a total of six classes, and the working class is a nice way of saying Upper Lower Class, as opposed to the Lower Lower class which usually can’t (or, according to some won’t) work. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/134 "2017-06-27T06:09:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Interesting. Looking at the second section in this link, there seems to be a different meaning in the USA: [Working class - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class) Your link gives several definitions. Perhaps you could expect explain what you mean. Also, could you explain what you meant by your comments about non-white people who held the views Bricker did. I don’t but I’m curious as to what you meant. Could you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/135 "2017-06-27T06:11:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Working class is short for working class poor, I believe. It’s the upper lower class. So you have Upper, Middle and Lower classes, and then each is divided into Upper and Lower. So you have a total of six classes, and the working class is a nice way of saying Upper Lower Class, as opposed to the Lower Lower class which usually can’t (or, according to some won’t) work. There are lots of people who are working class who certainly aren’t poor. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/136 "2017-06-27T06:26:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I was quoting from memory. I should have said “can make up to around 250,000 dollars a year”. > > From Time Magazine > > [http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html](http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html) > I should add part of the issue is that the term “plumber” can refer in and of itself to several different professions some of whom are self-employed some employed by others who’s salaries vary greatly. > > The point was many people who are clearly “working class” make a lot of money which isn’t meant to say there’s still some social stigma attached to it. After all “class” refers to not “economic status” but “socio-economic status”. That quote you cited and the conclusion you are drawing are both specious. You are taking what may be a .001% outlier and concluding that “many” people make that much money. They don’t. Your cite admits that the average plumber makes about $46K/year. [Here are the wages for union plumbers in NYC](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/olr/downloads/pdf/collectivebargaining/Plumber-2008-2016.pdf). Supervisors make $100 on double time. They would have to work 2500 hours of overtime in a year to make $250K. A normal work year is 2000 hours. If they work 2000 hours at straight time, that leaves them $150k short of your number. That would require an additional 1500 hours of work at double time per year, and you don’t get double time most days until you work at least 4 hours of OT (at 1.5x straight time wages). In order to work just 3000 hours per year, a person would work an average of 8.2 hours per day without ever taking a day off. In order to work 3500 hours, a person would have to work 9.6 hours per day without ever taking a day off. How many people do you think do this? The number of plumbers who make $250K per year is vanishingly small if they exist at all. The conclusion you draw, that “many people who are clearly “working class” make a lot of money” is clearly false, unless by many you mean “perhaps one or two”, and I don’t think that’s what you mean. This reminds me of that politician recently who thought that an average family had an income of several hundred thousand dollars. No; they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/137 "2017-06-27T06:30:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > There are lots of people who are working class who certainly aren’t poor. This is true, but working class people in the US get poorer every year, as wages have been stagnant for decades. [Cite](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/138 "2017-06-27T06:41:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That quote you cited and the conclusion you are drawing are both specious. You are taking what may be a .001% outlier and concluding that “many” people make that much money. They don’t. > > Your cite admits that the average plumber makes about $46K/year. > > [Here are the wages for union plumbers in NYC](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/olr/downloads/pdf/collectivebargaining/Plumber-2008-2016.pdf). > > The number of plumbers who make $250K per year is vanishingly small if they exist at all. > > The conclusion you draw, that “many people who are clearly “working class” make a lot of money” is clearly false, unless by many you mean “perhaps one or two”, and I don’t think that’s what you mean. > > This reminds me of that politician recently who thought that an average family had an income of several hundred thousand dollars. No; they don’t. I was quoting Time Magazine which listed the markets where Journeyman plumbers made up to that amount. Also you can make well under 250,000 and still make a lot of money. Lots of people universally considered working class do. BTW, not a big deal, but you didn’t answer my question. Is “prolly” a slang term for “probably”? If so, where did you pick it up? Honestly just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/139 "2017-06-27T06:47:31Z")
> [@](#): > > This reminds me of that politician recently who thought that an average family had an income of several hundred thousand dollars. No; they don’t. That could be a few different politicians. I’ve heard many insist that families making 150,000 were “middle class” and Bernie Sanders insisted that a bill giving free college for people earning up to 125,000 IIRC “failed to cover some middle class people.” Granted not 150,000 isn’t “several hundred thousand” but it’s high. Granted Americans have really messed up notions about what is and isn’t “middle class”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/140 "2017-06-27T06:58:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I was quoting Time Magazine which listed the markets where Journeyman plumbers made up to that amount. > > Also you can make well under 250,000 and still make a lot of money. Lots of people universally considered working class do. > > BTW, not a big deal, but you didn’t answer my question. > > Is “prolly” a slang term for “probably”? If so, where did you pick it up? Honestly just curious. As the quote in Time is unsourced and uncited, I’m going to stick with my argument that the number is not supported by facts. Prolly is a variant of probably, mostly used in the southern US. It’s usage in text dates to at least the early 1920s. The spelling is a representation of informal spoken pronunciation, similar to gotcha or gonna. I rarely say or write “probably”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539.md?page=8)