# The Uber boycott **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539 "2017-01-29T22:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/141 "2017-06-27T08:42:55Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Far off suburbs. Well, there may nominally be taxis, but if you call one it takes an hour to get to you. Whereas an Uber will be there in ten minutes. > > I get to these places by living there, or by having other family there. Normally I drive my own car, or rent a car, but once in a while I need a ride. > > Now mind you this is a fairly new development that Uber serves these distant suburbs. It used to be that we had to rely on calling these cabs, bad as they are. But the difference is night and day. And I’m told sometimes taxi drivers won’t take people to far-flung places if there’s no likelihood of them getting a return fare to somewhere useful. Most of the Uber drivers I’ve encountered are doing it as a side-gig for some extra cash so really aren’t all that worried about things like “Will it take me 45 minutes to get back to the nearest nightlife spot after this fare?” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/142 "2017-06-27T10:57:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > There are lots of people who are working class who certainly aren’t poor. To me, this is discounting _too_ much the “economic” part of socio-economic group. In my view, if you have enough income that you’re “certainly not poor”, you’re at least middle class if not upper middle class, no matter how blue collar your profession is considered. There are certainly income levels at which they diverge: for instance a teacher and a plumber with the same income might not be considered in the same group, but a self-employed plumber making 6 figures certainly ranks higher in my mind than a beginning teacher if I cared about such things. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/143 "2017-06-27T12:06:22Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Citing US working conditions on any level isn’t exactly smart; a more exploittive, owner-frendly environment it would be ghard to find inthe developed world. You’re citing the only developed country where there is no paid maternity leave, FFS. None. > > Add to that - for regular employees - minimal holiday pay, minimal employment rights, helthcare tied to employment, etc, etc - it is already a Dickensian society. Fine, let’s give you some cites to that third world hellhole in which I live, Australia, and some choice quotes: > [@](#): > > [“the number of taxis competing for jobs means the average driver’s wage has dropped to just over $20,000 a year.”](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-08-06/desperate-indians-flood-corrupt-cab-industry/934344) and > [@](#): > > [I drove a taxi for 15 years in Sydney . There is NO worse job than driving a taxi ,NONE.](http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1385089) > > No holiday pay, > no sick pay, > long hours, > stressful , > dangerous, > anti-family Both these quotes are 2010, pre-uber. As I said, your posts have the tone of a classic Luddite conservative, comparing a new technological solution to an imagined historical utopia that never existed, and unsurprisingly finding the new solution wanting. Your posts here are facts impervious, you just ignore any points you can’t answer. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/144 "2017-06-27T16:52:05Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Color me dubious. For one, you didn’t show that being a taxi driver was better. For two, a person working 60 hours a week in a rented car doesn’t match my experience with Uber/Lyft. My typical experience is someone doing a part time gig driving their own car. > > This is obviously unscientific, but just from experience I rarely encounter a Uber/Lyft driver that seems unhappy. They are usually chipper and somewhat talkative. Taxi drivers, on the other hand, always seem to be some level of pissed off. Yes, renting a car to drive for Uber is a terrible business plan. Renting a car is a very expensive way of purchasing the use of a vehicle. On the other hand, the people who drive for Uber probably have a hard time factoring in all the expenses that the incur driving the car they own. Are they properly accounting for gas, depreciation, wear and tear, maintenance, cleanup, time spent deadheading back home, and so on? On the other other hand, lots of people don’t count total travel expenses for a regular job either. Still, it’s a lot cheaper to use a vehicle you would have anyway for your personal use than to purchase a new vehicle and only use it as a taxi. In the first example you’ve already paid the capital costs for a vehicle that is sitting idle 95% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/145 "2017-06-28T02:26:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > As I said, your posts have the tone of a classic Luddite conservative, comparing a new technological solution to an imagined historical utopia that never existed, and unsurprisingly finding the new solution wanting. Your posts here are facts impervious, you just ignore any points you can’t answer. Speaking as an actual Uber (and Lyft) driver, I agree. **Up the Junction** , you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/146 "2017-06-28T03:47:03Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Speaking as an actual Uber (and Lyft) driver, I agree. > > **Up the Junction** , you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. Please avoid personalizing your argument in this fashion. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/147 "2017-06-28T12:28:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is true, but working class people in the US get poorer every year, as wages have been stagnant for decades. [Cite](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Sloppy statistics on Pew’s part and sloppy interpretation on yours. The BLS data do not cover all compensation, and Pew ignores demographic changes, particularly flows into and out of the workforce ([PDF, FRBSF](http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/files/el2016-07.pdf)). Where Pew shows a flat line, CBO shows increasing income for all quintiles ([PDF](https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/112th-congress-2011-2012/reports/10-25-householdincome0.pdf)). And of course poorness is not defined by wage. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/148 "2017-06-28T12:36:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > On the other hand, the people who drive for Uber probably have a hard time factoring in all the expenses that the incur driving the car they own. Are they properly accounting for gas, depreciation, wear and tear, maintenance, cleanup, time spent deadheading back home, and so on? > > On the other other hand, lots of people don’t count total travel expenses for a regular job either. I think most people are bad at cost modeling, and I wouldn’t expect Uber drivers to be any different. There are so many ways to turn a low-paying job into a net-zero or net-negative job. Although if you value your time very little and have a personal discount rate that quickly approaches infinite, your cost benefit analysis will come out different than others’ will. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/149 "2017-06-28T14:43:01Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Sloppy statistics on Pew’s part and sloppy interpretation on yours. The BLS data do not cover all compensation, and Pew ignores demographic changes, particularly flows into and out of the workforce ([PDF, FRBSF](http://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/files/el2016-07.pdf)). Where Pew shows a flat line, CBO shows increasing income for all quintiles ([PDF](https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/112th-congress-2011-2012/reports/10-25-householdincome0.pdf)). And of course poorness is not defined by wage. The Fed article only addresses the last decade or so. The Pew numbers go back much further, and cannot be explained by the retirements of the Baby Boomers. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/150 "2017-06-28T16:55:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Fed article only addresses the last decade or so. The Pew numbers go back much further, and cannot be explained by the retirements of the Baby Boomers. People drop in and out of the work force all the time, and for many reasons. I’m starting to see this with people in my company and acquaintances, particularly around having babies and retirement. I have a lot of old timey lawyers in my group and department that are going to part-time work. We’re not finding the expertise in the market (other than outrageously priced law firms). We also have people taking time off to have babies or dropping out the work force all together. These movements have significant impact on wages. The lowest quintile of wages may be stagnant, and that makes sense, as automation and outsourcing hits here first, but that doesn’t mean the people who work here are stuck here. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/151 "2017-06-28T17:33:44Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Speaking as an actual Uber (and Lyft) driver, I agree. > > **Up the Junction** , you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. Hey look, it’s the dude making 20 an hour for doing nothing except driving around having fun … ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/152 "2017-06-28T17:48:54Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Hey look, it’s the dude making 20 an hour for doing nothing except driving around having fun … Did you see this: > [@Bone](#): > > Please avoid personalizing your argument in this fashion. > > [/moderating] This goes for everyone, which includes you. This is the second note I’ve written to you specifically in the last 5 minutes. I suggest you rein it in. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/153 "2017-06-28T23:36:42Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Hey look, it’s the dude making 20 an hour for doing nothing except driving around having fun … Where are your facts, your reasoning, your cites? There’s nothing here. It’s just accusations of people of being motivated by penny pinching, backed by nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/154 "2017-06-29T09:22:05Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Hey look, it’s the dude making 20 an hour for doing nothing except driving around having fun … That’s an interesting mode of attack. Do you think most cab drivers make “20 an hour”? According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2010(meaning before Uber exploded) the median income for a cab driver was $22,400 a year. [http://work.chron.com/much-fare-taxi-drivers-keep-22871.html](http://work.chron.com/much-fare-taxi-drivers-keep-22871.html) It’s extremely common for them to have to work 12 hour shifts and they were so overworked that in 2016 the NYC Taxi and Limousine Commission passed a rule forbidding them from working more than 72 hours in a week. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/nyregion/taking-aim-at-fatigue-taxi-commission-limits-drivers-to-12-hour-days.amp.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/nyregion/taking-aim-at-fatigue-taxi-commission-limits-drivers-to-12-hour-days.amp.html) Ok, if you’re working 72 hours or more a week and you’re only only making 22,400 a year you sure as hell aren’t making 20 dollars an hour. Hell, let’s pretend you get two weeks off for vacation and only work 60 hours. Guess what, you’re only making 7.47 cents an hour. You seem to be conceding that Uber drivers are paid far more money than normal cab drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/155 "2017-06-29T11:28:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, if you’re working 72 hours or more a week and you’re only only making 22,400 a year you sure as hell aren’t making 20 dollars an hour. Hell, let’s pretend you get two weeks off for vacation and only work 60 hours. Guess what, you’re only making 7.47 cents an hour. 7.47 dollars an hour. 7 cents an hour is low, even for cab drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539/156 "2017-06-29T13:38:23Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > 7.47 dollars an hour. 7 cents an hour is low, even for cab drivers. D’oh! my mistake. Typing while tired. The point is, I’m not sure there’s a way too make being a cab driver not be a crap job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uber-boycott/778539.md?page=7)