# The UK and the fox hunting ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042 "2015-05-14T16:34:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/101 "2015-05-28T04:45:47Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > So we now get this distinction by you, that we city folk ‘don’t understand’ your ‘country ways’ > \ > > - it really does show you up for the Romanesque savage that you truly are. **casdave** , maybe my previous post was a bit long for your attention span, so I edited yours for clarification of my reply. I’m not a country boy, I’m from London. I’ve known country folk and have family who’ve moved from London to small villages surrounded by farming lands, maybe that’s where you made the mistake. If you’re able, you might benefit from reading my quote below in reply to **Kobal2**. Also ‘Romanesque’ refers to art, architecture of the 10th to 13th century or a Japanese musical album, so I’m unsure how any of those could possibly be collocated with the word ‘savage’? I’m not familiar with JPop, does it really sound so bad? 😛 > [@Kobal2](#): > > And also damage the fields, crops and gardens of the \*actual \*country folk they’re so selflessly “helping” with the “pest control”. **Kobal2** , the PDF I linked to also states; > [@](#): > > "Effect on Farmers: > > According to the Burns report, the effect on farmers due to the ban would include: > >  The loss of a free pest control service; >  The loss of the hunt‟s staff and volunteers mending broken gates and fences for > free; >  The potential loss of more lambs, poultry, piglets and game birds due to preditation, > and more damage to crops; and >  Farmers using the “fallen stock” service (where hunts remove unsalable dead/ > injured/sick farm animals) would face additional costs due to having to use a > licensed knackers‟ service." ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/102 "2015-05-28T05:45:09Z")
So, coming from an Australian perspective, the kind of fox ‘hunt’ being discussed here is laughably stupid and inefficient. My grandfather owned a sheep farm in Victoria and was the local guy to go to in the shire if you had a fox problem. He taught my dad and I learned from both of them. Using a light, whistle and shotgun and on foot or with a vehicle/spotlight/rifle, we would go out every night of the week leading up to lambing and for the week after lambs started dropping, watching the flocks and shooting or scaring away the foxes. We did that for around 25 years before my grandfather sold the farm and retired and dad & I have done a lot of fox shooting for other farmers we know (most farmers can’t shoot worth a damn and are more than happy to have someone else come in and sort things out for the cost of a cup of coffee at the end of the night). Some observations from all that: yes, a fox will kill every chook in a coop and eat one or two. When that happens you restock, grab your shotgun and wait for the bugger to come back (foxes tend to be creatures of habit) or make your coop fox proof (more work but it can be done). Most foxes won’t kill livestock unless it’s very weak or very sick - most of the time during lambing season they are out eating the afterbirth or picking off weak lambs (which would probably survive if it wasn’t for the fox). Most estimates I’ve seen put the number of foxes at around 5 per square kilometre, of those maybe 1 in 6 is a true killer - they _will_ attack stock, killing multiple healthy lambs or sick ewes in a night and eating the soft parts (tongue, ears) and then moving on. Often the killers are older, sick or mangy animals but on occasion you encounter ones in good condition that start. The killers are the ones you have to get (we knew one hobby farmer who lost 50% of his flock in the space of 3 nights). The only way to get a killer is to go out when they are active, learn their habits and then try to outsmart them - not easy if they have been shot at before and know what a spotlight is - it’s a process that can take days or even weeks. Poison baits rarely seem to get killer foxes, for whatever reason they don’t take them. Some random fox getting chased down by a bunch of dipsticks in red coats is unlikely to be a killer. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/103 "2015-05-28T06:26:17Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Yes, your point about supercats killing US animals is totally besides the point when we’re talking about the UK countryside Sorry, I was unaware wallabies and penguins roamed the green hills of Merrye Olde Englande… ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/104 "2015-05-28T10:11:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry, I was unaware wallabies and penguins roamed the green hills of Merrye Olde Englande… Oh yes, they do, mainly in and around Birkenhead, Crackpot and especially Hound **slow** in Scotland, where the foxes are might quick runners! They’re actually all real town names, British quirky habits occur with alarming frequency. You can enjoy [cheese rolling](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyQBSMeIhM), [bog snorkling](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowe6QnT5v8), [gurning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KstOzw5zNg), watch the [marble championships](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HopDXYagmmU), go [lawn mower racing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjblVasvmuk), enjoy the [conker World Championships](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjblVasvmuk), or the [Bognor Birdman World Championship](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-A9FnoFuuI). You’re right, the Ozzie fox could be a lot more aggressive/bigger than the British one. Did my attempt at distracting you from me eating humble pie work? And thanks, **Battle Pope** , for your input. _Some random fox getting chased down by a bunch of dipsticks in red coats…_ - no argument from me there! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/105 "2015-05-28T11:39:43Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > You’re right, the Ozzie fox could be a lot more aggressive/bigger than the British one. I think it’s more that they’re an [invasive alien](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_foxes_in_Australia). They were introduced for fox hunting. Ironic. > [@](#): > > Did my attempt at distracting you from me eating humble pie work? I was my school conkers champ, so it was a nice blast from the past, actually… ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042/106 "2015-05-28T22:05:20Z")
I think I’ve reached the summit of my constructive input here. Thanks to all for your enlightening and measured posts - this has been my first, fully engaged thread in the Great Debates section. The discussion here has been very enjoyable, in a thrust and parry way, and I hope I’ve gained some new insights into how to respond. My techniques in how to provoke responses, and the energy and time to commit to this thread have been found wanting, however. A paragraph of the The PDF I found I’d like to leave, as an opening and closing; > [@](#): > > “It appears that the debate surrounding hunting will never be laid to rest as every > argument raised, either for it or against it, is always met with a swift counter argument > response. While a great deal of time, money and effort has been invested over the > years in research, no matter how much scientific evidence is collected, people‟s > personal opinions on the subject seem to be the main driving force behind the whole > debate.” That’s not intended to to be my final word; rather just that I fully respect opinions of yours that differ from mine. If we hadn’t had this discussion I’d probably not take the above paragraph very seriously. I hope some of the things I’ve said, you’ll also consider, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-and-the-fox-hunting-ban/720042.md?page=5)