# The UK must apologize to Argentina for the Falklands? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526 "2003-12-07T07:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/81 "2003-12-09T08:20:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zapper \* > **Go lick your aunt’s count** [cunt! cunt! cunt! cunt! 🙂 Please don’t spell check mine - I know it’s full of faults. I have no dictionary here ☹ /Rune]. > > \*\*I passionately belive that the Malvinas should be part of Argentina > \*\* I have a very hard time getting to grips with such a position. Apart from the very shaky historical foundation to base such a claim on, why do you think the Falklands (Malvinas) should be part of Argentina, when the overwhelming majority of the population actually living there quite clearly find the whole idea quite revolting? Why would you want to force them into a country they don’t want to be part of? Should the islands be turned over to Argentina what should happen to the population? Should they be stripped of the British natinality or allowed to hold dual nationality? If they refuse to give up their British nationality or assume a Argentinian nationality should they be deported? What about South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, do you claim sovereignty over those as well? (I know that the natives of Falklands as residents of an Overseas Territory hold some special position within Britian - perhaps not complete nationality, but whatever it is they have, they’re quite clearly not seeking to turn it in for an Argentinian nationality) This discussion could also go for Gibraltar. But at least the Spaniards have, if not the native Gibraltarians backing, then at least some sane historical and geographical basis to posit such a claim on. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/82 "2003-12-09T08:38:43Z")
**Zapper** , pls. explain why you think Las Malvinas should belong to Argentina. I have two very good friends from Britain, so I have only heard one side of the argument so far. Despite my belief that it was a really stupid thing to invade the islands, I believe that behind the whole mess there must have been a bit of truth behind your reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/83 "2003-12-09T08:45:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **WinstonSmith** \* > This discussion could also go for Gibraltar. But at least the Spaniards have, if not the native Gibraltarians backing, then at least some sane historical and geographical basis to posit such a claim on. Wrong! The Gibraltarians are massively against becoming shared British-Spanish territory, much less Spanish territory. You see, I had this same argument with my Gibraltarian friend today. What gives “the mainland” right over some territories. Why do the Spaniards hold on to what geographically is clearly part of Morocco. Or the British hold on to Gibraltar and the Falkland islands (and I understand that better than the Spanish and Argentinian claims over territories whose inhabitants rejects them). How long does a country have to possess a territory to really deserve it? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/84 "2003-12-09T08:56:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty\_Girl \* > **Wrong! The Gibraltarians are massively against becoming shared British-Spanish territory, much less Spanish territory.** Emmmm… That’s what I wrote - or perhaps what I meant to write? See: “But at least the Spaniards have, if not the native Gibraltarians backing, then at least some sane historical and geographical basis to posit such a claim on.” E.g. While they do not have the backing of the Gibraltarians their case is at least somewhat better since the geographical and historical foundations are better. Still not enough without the natives backing in my oppinion. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/85 "2003-12-09T11:10:45Z")
[Eddie Izzard] “Great Britain, what’s that You got behind your back?” “Uuhh oohh…it’s India and a number of other countries…” Come on give them back!" “Unh…allright…that goes there and that goes there…Noo not the Falklands…we need them for strategic sheep purposes…” [/EI] Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/86 "2003-12-09T11:11:51Z")
> [@](#): > > when the overwhelming majority of the population actually living there quite clearly find the whole idea quite revolting? It’s hardly surprising that a plantation community would be loyal to the country that put them there, especially with all the subsidies the UK provides. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/87 "2003-12-09T11:18:15Z")
It appears that London doesn’t sublidise the Falklands anymore > [@](#): > > A conflict between fishing and tourism is just what the Islanders are keen to avoid. Fishing licences bring the government £22m a year, and are the major reason the islands have become independent of any subsidy from London (excluding the £70m spent each year on the Islands’ military presence). [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2043564.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2043564.stm) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/88 "2003-12-09T11:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mr. B \* > Pah_donn\*? 🙂 > “Eva Peron” was actually intended as a joke, a play on a few things that have happened here. > > Last night, you seemed to be sparring, and holding up your end of the debate so aptly that I thought we were on the same wavelength. Honestly. > > I’m not sure how to take your last post. If you weren’t joking, I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings in any way. You haven’t hurt my feelings, you’ve just made yourself look like a jerk. Your contributions to this thread have been incoherent, self-contradictory and pointlessly hostile. Then you start ‘joking’ about acrimony, even though there wouldn’t have been any but for you. If you think we’ve been on the same wavelength you’re being very kind to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/89 "2003-12-09T11:38:27Z")
**Zapper** : I hope you’ve noticed the general sympathy for Argentina’s current predicament that has been expressed in this thread. Long before the war there was a [plan for the UK to give the islands to Argentina](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/01/99/1968_secret_history/244319.stm), and but for diplomatic incompetence and the unsavoury nature of the Galtieri government that might still have been a possibility in the 1980s. Unfortunately, as I’m sure you agree, the bloodshed of 1982 has made a simple resolution less likely rather than more. It’s a fact that most British people had no idea where the Falklands/Malvinas were until the war, but there will be strong political resistance here to any change in sovereignty for the forseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/90 "2003-12-09T13:47:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > **President Kirchner, a _Malvinan_** You are now claiming that President Kirchner is from the Malvinas/Falklands? I take it I’d just be completely wasting my time asking for any evidence of this claim. Perhaps you can recall a man in a bar telling you it was so, or a newspaper clipping that you read 20 years ago and clearly remember but can’t quote or link to? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/91 "2003-12-09T13:54:30Z")
I think he’s from Patagonia, actually. [Google search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=kirchner+argentina+patagonia) would seem to confirm. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/92 "2003-12-09T13:56:21Z")
That explains it. He’s Welsh ! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/93 "2003-12-09T14:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*That explains it. He’s Welsh ! \*\* Could we maybe do a deal, and give Argentina Wales instead of the Falklands? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/94 "2003-12-09T14:03:58Z")
One sheep looks like another to me. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/95 "2003-12-09T14:07:28Z")
Did anyone see that episode of TV Nation where Michael Moore tried to give Argentina some small town in Northern England? This was just after Argentina offered the Falklanders/Malvinans £1 million each to become Argentinians (Argentines?). Moore went to some depressed little shithole up norf and asked the people there if they would take up the offer, and got a load of responses to the effect of “Hell yes, I’d do it for a fiver. What has Britain ever done for me?” Ended up with the whole lot of them singing the Argentine national anthem. Gut-busting stuff, I tells ya. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/96 "2003-12-09T14:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*You are now claiming that President Kirchner is from the Malvinas/Falklands? > > I take it I’d just be completely wasting my time asking for any evidence of this claim. Perhaps you can recall a man in a bar telling you it was so, or a newspaper clipping that you read 20 years ago and clearly remember but can’t quote or link to? \*\* Not to offer Mr. B an escape route, perhaps he meant Malvinian in the sense he’s a supporter of the the Malvinas. Weak, but plausible. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/97 "2003-12-09T14:19:09Z")
I do remember that. Very good. Wasn’t the town actually in Wales? I’d go for “Argentinians” myself, but Word’s spellcheck insists it’s “Argentineans”. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/98 "2003-12-09T14:23:36Z")
The problem with Argentina’s claim over the Falklands/Malvinas islands is that it depends on the supremacy of a convenient date selected from history. The frequently-expressed wishes of the people who live there are deemed to be insignificant. But _all_ the New World was colonised by methods that would be anathema today and the aboriginal population of South American countries are generally treated very badly. If they chose a date that was convenient to them they could use that to justify the eviction of any Argentinians of European descent and reclaim the land that was once exclusively theirs. So is Manhattan to be given back to the Indians? Are millions of Australians of European descent to be evicted from that country to allow it to be given back to the people it was stolen from? There is no absolute entitlement to the land beneath your feet; we have all inherited history as it is, whether we like it or not, and we must find amicable solutions to our problems by obeying the principles of modern civilisation. If the islands were my personal property I would be happy to give them “back” to Argentina. But they aren’t mine. It shouldn’t tax the imagination to understand why anyone who had a choice would prefer not to be governed from Buenos Aires, so it seems particularly crass to force some harmless sheep farmers (whatever we might think of them) to accept that fate for the sake of some flag waving. I’m not sure I’d take an Argentinian cheque for one peso now, let alone £1m. ```auto As far as Gibraltar is concerned, the principal argument on the Spanish side is not that they have some fetish for redrawing the map the way it was in the Good Old Days, but because the Rock is the number one point of entry for drugs and illegal immigrants entering Spain. Obviously the Gibraltarians should have the same rights to self-determination as anyone else, but if they were better neighbours the Spanish wouldn’t complain so much. ``` ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/99 "2003-12-09T14:25:08Z")
No, the town was actually in Patagonia. And ‘Michael Moore’ was really President Kirchner in a rubber mask. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526/100 "2003-12-09T14:30:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > **I do remember that. Very good. Wasn’t the town actually in Wales?** Could be. I confess it was so long ago, I’ve forgotten. Wasn’t in the sunny southeast anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-uk-must-apologize-to-argentina-for-the-falklands/217526.md?page=6)