# The Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718 "2005-09-02T09:16:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/1 "2005-09-02T09:16:44Z")
Why is the Ukraine called _the_ Ukraine? What does “Ukraine” mean? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/2 "2005-09-02T10:22:42Z")
It’s derived from a name meaning either “border” or just “country”, depending on the sources… ---
**Author:** ![Ardrine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ardrine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ardrine)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/3 "2005-09-02T12:09:15Z")
The use of _The_ Ukraine has been [criticised in claims that it reflects a desire to undermine the status of Ukraine as an independent country](http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/) and [according to Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine), and looking at the results of a google search, modern media usage has moved away from it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/4 "2005-09-02T12:14:26Z")
> [@Ardrine](#): > > The use of _The_ Ukraine has been [criticised in claims that it reflects a desire to undermine the status of Ukraine as an independent country](http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/) and [according to Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine), and looking at the results of a google search, modern media usage has moved away from it. Still it sounds grammatically wrong to say just “Ukraine”. If “The Ukraine” means “The Borders” or “The Marches” in Russian, and they didn’t like it, wouldn’t it have made more sense to give their country a new name? Or rather, the old name that they called their land before the Russians took over? ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Whistle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Big\_Whistle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Whistle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/5 "2005-09-02T12:17:06Z")
> [@csharpmajor](#): > > Why is the Ukraine called _the_ Ukraine? What does “Ukraine” mean? The name itself is uncertain as to origin. As is shown in [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine), the name is thought to be derived from one of four possible sources: 1. Borderland/frontier 2. Country 3. The land carved out 4. Homeland. In Russian and Ukrainian, it is simply called Ukraina (four syllables) but note that neither language uses definite articles. The reason it is called “The Ukraine” in English has to do primarily with the fact that it wasn’t really a country, but rather a region. Comprable usage would include the term The Midwest to describe the area of North America roughly bounded by the Ohio River, the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River. Another even more comprable case is calling Sudan “The Sudan,” which results from the name for a general region known in Arabic as Land of the Blacks (bilad as-Sudan). Wikipedia notes that the usage of the definite article is losing favor now that the region has be made into a country. Compare the similar approach to The Sudan, which seems a silly concept in the sense that the Arabic name for the country calls it Republic of the Sudan. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Whistle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Big\_Whistle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Whistle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/6 "2005-09-02T12:20:04Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Still it sounds grammatically wrong to say just “Ukraine”. If “The Ukraine” means “The Borders” or “The Marches” in Russian, and they didn’t like it, wouldn’t it have made more sense to give their country a new name? Or rather, the old name that they called their land before the Russians took over? The main problem is that the use of The Ukraine to refer to the country confuses the issue of the region with the name and the country with the name. There are certain political and social implications in that which may best be avoided through disuse of the definite article. Since the language of the country in question doesn’t use a definite article, there certainly is no imperative that we do so. ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/7 "2005-09-02T12:24:57Z")
I work with a company based in Ukraine, and they confirm what **Ardrine** said. _The_ Ukraine was a region - like The Crimea, or The Middle East, or The East Coast. Now that it is a nation, its name is simply Ukraine, like almost all other nations. It sounds wrong, probably because “the Ukraine” has existed as a region for many years, and these things have a habit of perpetuating. Over here, it’s possible people call it “the Ukraine” because it sounds a bit like “the UK” (one of the few countries that do have _The_ as a prefix). I still find it hard to say “Ukraine” on its own - but I try to make sure that I do, since my colleagues that live there have explained it is its proper name. I suppose they could’ve created a new name - but they probably decided that it was easier. If a state were leave the US, and become a new nation, it’d _probably_ keep its name, I guess. Would Quebec change its name if it were to leave Canada? Would Cornwall change its name if it left the UK? I would imagine not, although this pure speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/8 "2005-09-02T13:40:27Z")
What about the Gambia? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/9 "2005-09-02T16:41:07Z")
For those who find that it feels awkward to say ‘Ukraine’, you’ll get used to it given time 🙂 > [@Fish Cheer](#): > > What about the Gambia? I’ve never heard that one. However, I’d like to add The Hague to the incipient list of requests for explanation. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/10 "2005-09-02T18:50:14Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Still it sounds grammatically wrong to say just “Ukraine”. If “The Ukraine” means “The Borders” or “The Marches” in Russian, and they didn’t like it, wouldn’t it have made more sense to give their country a new name? Or rather, the old name that they called their land before the Russians took over? If I understand correctly, that is what they’ve always called it. I honestly don’t know if there ever was that big of a distinction between Russians and Ukrainians, it was just another region of the same nation really, with it’s local quirks and peculiarities and dialect. Modern Ukrainian nationalists will definitely tell you otherwise, but I don’t think Russians “took over” anything, nor was there ever large scale conflict. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/11 "2005-09-02T19:56:40Z")
> [@groman](#): > > but I don’t think Russians “took over” anything, nor was there ever large scale conflict. Really? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/12 "2005-09-02T20:04:53Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#History](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine#History) Nothing about any Russian invasions or anything…Also note how it does not separate Ukrainians from Russians in any significant way, since there really isn’t one. In fact, the cultures and languages are a lot more similar than say the same from the different regions of China. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/13 "2005-09-02T22:24:01Z")
The Congo? El Cairo (Spanish, I know, but I think I recall seeing the Cairo, as well)? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/14 "2005-09-02T22:57:14Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I’ve never heard that one. However, I’d like to add The Hague to the incipient list of requests for explanation. I’m pretty certain that “Hague” etimologically refers to some geographic feature (I can’t remember which). I wouldn’t know why it would get a definite article (assuming that it means, say, “hill”, why was it called called THE hill, rather than Redhill, Bighill, Hillwithmanyoaksonit, like most other places are?), but I would note that there’s a place by the same name in France and it also gets a definite article. ---
**Author:** ![bradministrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bradministrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradministrator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ukraine/319718/15 "2005-09-03T00:42:44Z")
IIRC, ‘hague’ means hedge in Dutch, and The Hague (Den Hague) refers to a hedge that was around a castle or manor or something.