# The Ultimate Ashes Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539 "2005-08-25T07:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/41 "2005-08-28T14:21:25Z")
I don’t want to bang on about how useless the umpires in this Test are, but … It is often said by commentators that, if too much technology is introduced to assist with decisions, the umpires will be reduced to mere ball-counters. Well, it seems they cannot even do that, since there has just been a 5-ball over. But, no: wait! The playing conditions state that if there is a short over, the 3rd umpire can alert the umpire on the field so that the error can be corrected, even after “over” has been called. So everyone, having prepared for the next over from the other end, went back into position so that the previous over could be completed. It is truly heartwarming to know that the playing conditions allow the 3rd umpire to intervene in such an important matter as the number of balls bowled in an over - and yet he can not intervene when, for example, a bloke is given out LBW even though the ball blatantly pitched outside the leg stump (as happened to poor old Katich - according to Hawkeye, it was going over the stumps, too, for good measure). Un-be-effing-lievable. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/42 "2005-08-28T14:29:58Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > The playing conditions state that if there is a short over, the 3rd umpire can alert the umpire on the field so that the error can be corrected, even after “over” has been called. So everyone, having prepared for the next over from the other end, went back into position so that the previous over could be completed. Please tell me that this inane rule does have–as at least a token nod towards intelligent rule-making–a provision that once the first ball of the next over is bowled, that the short over stands. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/43 "2005-08-28T16:52:17Z")
108-6 with England needing to get 129. This is getting excting. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/44 "2005-08-28T16:53:26Z")
Oops, my mistake, 111-6. ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/45 "2005-08-28T17:01:27Z")
… and there goes no. 7. This is getting _really_ interesting. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/46 "2005-08-28T17:24:10Z")
Finally, England have won the match, 129-7. They go 2-1 up in the series. Australia need to win the final test match match to retain the Ashes. England only need to draw the final test and the Ashes are theirs. Who said a 5 day test wasn’t exciting? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/47 "2005-08-28T19:13:51Z")
'Twas a veritable nailbiter. ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/48 "2005-08-28T19:20:15Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Who said a 5 day test wasn’t exciting? 5 **day**?? The 5 match series of 5 day tests is far more exciting than most games of football! ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/49 "2005-08-28T19:37:07Z")
The final test should be a good one. Australia have to win it, and after they way they have played it is not looking good for them. The ony good news for them has been the England innings, 129-7, does not look comfortable enough for me. And with Jones injured it will be a close thing. Can the Aussies get their act together in time? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/50 "2005-08-28T21:02:45Z")
I’d dearly love to watch that as video. Currently, I’m catching cricket matches live on BBC’s sport player, which is just audio. Will there be a legitimately free live video over the 'net? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/51 "2005-08-28T21:20:33Z")
When England undergo a batting collapse, they do it in style. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/52 "2005-08-28T21:23:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’d dearly love to watch that as video. Currently, I’m catching cricket matches live on BBC’s sport player, which is just audio. > > Will there be a legitimately free live video over the 'net? Not this year, though the BBC are planning to [put channels on the net.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4187036.stm) ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/53 "2005-08-28T21:39:02Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Please tell me that this inane rule does have–as at least a token nod towards intelligent rule-making–a provision that once the first ball of the next over is bowled, that the short over stands. Dunno - it’s not in the Laws but themselves but, according to Ritchie Benaud, it’s in the Playing Conditions for this series. It does seem to fly in the face of the spirit of [Law 23](http://www.lords.org/laws-and-spirit/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-23-dead-ball,49,AR.html), which sets out when the ball is dead, which includes: 23(a)(x) “the umpire calls Over or Time.” But then, the Playing Conditions also seem to say that the day’s play must end, whether or not the requisite number of overs has been bowled, at a time which will enable Channel 4 to show the umpteenth repeat of “The Simpsons” at 6 o’clock! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/54 "2005-08-28T23:56:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > When England undergo a batting collapse, they do it in style. Well, they _have_ had plenty of practice with that. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/55 "2005-08-29T02:08:19Z")
**Seosamh** , interestingly, Australian players, management, executive and commentators have been against the introduction of more technology to decide, for example, LBW decisions. “Part of the rich fabric of the game”, or some such. An interesting outcome of the referral of all LBW decisions to the video umpire would be, as Michael Holding points out, that around 90% of batsmen who are given the benefit of the doubt in bat-pad LBW cases would then be dismissed. There was a good example of this in the England second innings when Warne and Gilchrist (two guys who know their cricket and are honest blokes on the field) were convinced that the ball had hit the batsman’s (Flintoff, I believe) pad before hitting his bat. The replays showed they were right. It would have hit; it pitched in line - Freddie should have been out. In fact, “Mikey” makes a good case for the fact that, the way a good batsman typically plays, the ball will invariably hit the pad first. A number of people say you can solve the problem at a stroke by making it irrelevant whether the ball hit the bat or not. If it’s going on to hit the stumps, it’s out. That, of course, raises problems of its own, the biggest of which is that the travelling distance between the nick and the striking of the pad would be very short (a few inches). And any umpire will tell you that without sufficient (say 18 inches) travelling distance - normally measured as the distance between the ball pitching and it hitting the pad, it’s very difficult to give an LBW. Think of Warne bowling his big leg spinners, and you’ll appreciate the problem. Even Hawkeye’s going to have problems here. On a more partisan note, here’s praying it pours at the Oval! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/56 "2005-08-29T04:33:29Z")
I’m still wondering what the commenator was talking about when he said, “doing a Ponting.” ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/57 "2005-08-29T04:39:39Z")
Was that when Katich was given out when the ball had pitched 3 inches outside leg stump? I think it refers to the fact that he was giving it plenty of verbals all the way back to the pavilion, including what looked like it might have been a volley to some spectators. Ponting ranted and raved up to the English dressing room as he made the journey back after being run out by England’s super-sub. Both face likely punishment for dissent from the match ref. It seems like Duncan Fletcher (and his laptop) has out Sun Tzu-ed John Buchanan (and his). ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/58 "2005-08-29T09:58:34Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Was that when Katich was given out when the ball had pitched 3 inches outside leg stump? I think it refers to the fact that he was giving it plenty of verbals all the way back to the pavilion, including what looked like it might have been a volley to some spectators. Ponting ranted and raved up to the English dressing room as he made the journey back after being run out by England’s super-sub. Both face likely punishment for dissent from the match ref. 75% of the match fee for Ponting and 50% for Katich according to today’s newspapers. I expect Ponting’s was more because a captain should be leading by example, and throwing hissy fits aren’t exactly the best example to show. Wow, if only football would introduce big fines like this for dissent, Rooney’d be practically paying to play! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/59 "2005-08-29T10:48:06Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Please tell me that this inane rule does have–as at least a token nod towards intelligent rule-making–a provision that once the first ball of the next over is bowled, that the short over stands. Yes once the new over begins that is it. Even in most low grade cricket, even kid’s games, each team provides a scorer and even if the two umpires miscount the scorers will call out that there is “one to come” as soon as over is called. The missing ball will then be bowled. But if the scorers miss it, bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539/60 "2005-08-29T13:12:54Z")
don’t ask: Back in California, I was the “back-up” scorer, using my Palm Pilot to score the matches sitting next to our club’s official scorer. That way, we could check up each other and have an accurate scoresheet–no small feat in certain leagues. What I remember most, though, is the rarity of short overs and that’s due to what you just said. We’d shout to the umpires “one more left!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-ashes-thread/318539.md?page=4)