# The ultimate irony--Gay bashing attack at the Stonewall Inn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112 "2010-10-05T13:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/61 "2010-10-06T13:38:42Z")
Anytime that a homosexual gets hit by someone, either in an arguement, physical alteration or whatever, they yell “gay bashing”! 95% of the time, it is about drugs, or alcohol was involved, and words get said. The most famous example is of course Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming. The media protrayed Shepard as a victim of a gay crime, when what happened was that he was jumped by two guys for money to buy drugs. Had nothing to do whatsoever with homosexuality. As a matter of fact, there is evidence that one of the killers had homosexual relations with the victim. NYC is a big, rough city. People get mugged, beat up and messed with. Just because you are homosexual doesn’t give you special rights. Gays murder heterosexuals too. Can I charge them with a hate crime? The Stonewall guy was mugged. No biggie, this is what the perps should be charged with. But in America, one has the right to say what he wants. I’ve been called a lot of things. Not illegal. Besides, can’t homosexuals defend themselves physically? I’m sure they can. Especially the male like lesbians in flannel. Gays are proud to say that they are members of the military, police forces, fire departments, sports teams, etc. Surely, you can fight back instead of bellering and crying in your lavender hankeys while stomping on every other American’s First Amendment rights. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/62 "2010-10-06T13:48:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > The most famous example is of course Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming. The media protrayed Shepard as a victim of a gay crime, when what happened was that he was jumped by two guys for money to buy drugs. Had nothing to do whatsoever with homosexuality. As a matter of fact, there is evidence that one of the killers had homosexual relations with the victim. CITE? I’ve heard that claim for ages, but never without a reliable cite. Some claim that drug dealers either killed Nicole Brown Simpson for the drug oney she owed, or they thought she was Faye Rerssick and killled her for the drug money she owed, or that the real victim was Ron Goldman, illed for the drug money he owed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/63 "2010-10-06T13:49:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Anytime that a homosexual gets hit by someone, either in an arguement, physical alteration or whatever, they yell “gay bashing”! 95% of the time, it is about drugs, or alcohol was involved, and words get said. I don’t know where your percentage comes from, but of course as a general principle you’re right: SOME PERCENTAGE of the time, it’s about drugs, or alcohol, or a stolen parking space, or some other non-sexual-orientation issue. But in this case, we have some indicia that the victim _WAS_ chosen based on his identity as a gay man. So the question to you would be: if you’re confident that this was not related to sexual orientation… why? On what basis do you disregard the claimed dialog in the restroom prior to the attack? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/64 "2010-10-06T13:52:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Who gives a fuck if it’s legally a “hate crime?” It’s certainly a gay-bashing, however it’s charged. I think you’re missing a point here. I asked a question when fewer facts about the crime were available. At that time, there was, in my opinion, nothing more than a robbery of a gay in a bathroom of a bar. One derogatory word was exchanged and based on that, I wondered if a hate crime was justified. Since that time, other information has entered the thread that tends to, as \*\* Bricker\*\* has politely pointed out, support the hate crime charge. So who gives a F—… I do. And because I gave a F---- I now am more aware of what hate crimes are. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/65 "2010-10-06T14:00:30Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > One derogatory word was exchanged and based on that, I wondered if a hate crime was justified. Can you “exchange” one item? I’d’a thought it’d be a “transfer” or “transmission”. Just kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/66 "2010-10-06T14:02:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Gays murder heterosexuals too. Can I charge them with a hate crime? Since you’re not a prosecutor, you can’t charge them with anything. However, there’s no particular reason that a person who murders another for being straight can’t be charged with a hate crime. However, feel free to return to your regularly scheduled bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/67 "2010-10-06T14:02:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > The most famous example is of course Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming. The media protrayed Shepard as a victim of a gay crime, when what happened was that he was jumped by two guys for money to buy drugs. Had nothing to do whatsoever with homosexuality. As a matter of fact, there is evidence that one of the killers had homosexual relations with the victim. Again you make a very confident assertion here, when in fact there’s plenty of evidence for a reasonable person to conclude that gay-bashing was the motive for Shepard’s death. Perhaps the most compelling: it was the defense raised at trial. “Gay panic,” said the defense, was the reason for the violence; when Shephard made a drunken pass at McKinney in the pickup truck, it triggered his long-repressed rage at being the victim of childhood molestation and made him attack Shephard. Admittedly, there was contradictory evidence, including evidence that McKinney himself was bisexual. But it’s unclear to me on what basis you automatically dismiss the actual defense offered at trial as being false. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/68 "2010-10-06T14:04:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Who gives a fuck if it’s legally a “hate crime?” It’s certainly a gay-bashing, however it’s charged. > > I think you’re missing a point here. I asked a question when fewer facts about the crime were available. At that time, there was, in my opinion, nothing more than a robbery of a gay in a bathroom of a bar. One derogatory word was exchanged and based on that, I wondered if a hate crime was justified. > > Since that time, other information has entered the thread that tends to, as \*\* Bricker\*\* has politely pointed out, support the hate crime charge. > > So who gives a F—… I do. And because I gave a F---- I now am more aware of what hate crimes are. Which is precisely how the Straight Dope is supposed to work. Unless you’re **Polycarp**. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/69 "2010-10-06T14:10:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Anytime that a homosexual gets hit by someone, either in an arguement, physical alteration or whatever, they yell “gay bashing”! 95% of the time, it is about drugs, or alcohol was involved, and words get said. Fascinating. You’re like an ordinary-looking Slurpee machine which, inexplicably and at random moments, begins spraying pea soup. “Pea soup” perhaps being overly charitable. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/70 "2010-10-06T14:34:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > The most famous example is of course Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming. The media protrayed Shepard as a victim of a gay crime, when what happened was that he was jumped by two guys for money to buy drugs. Had nothing to do whatsoever with homosexuality. As a matter of fact, there is evidence that one of the killers had homosexual relations with the victim. As has been pointed out to you, and as is evidenced from the transcript of the trials and the testimony of the killers, you’re so incredibly insanely wrong about that particular case. But feel free to continue to spout your inane ignorant incorrect bigoted drivel. While we feel free to continue to mock your inanity and ignorance and bigotry and drivel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/71 "2010-10-06T14:35:11Z")
I think the real question here is whether **CM** ’s 95% statistic is based on original research. I’ve looked for the figures in all kinds of statistical abstracts, and frankly, I don’t see any way around punching a lot of gays if you want to find out how often they yell “gay-bashing!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/72 "2010-10-06T14:46:10Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > But feel free to continue to spout your inane ignorant incorrect bigoted drivel. While we feel free to continue to mock your inanity and ignorance and bigotry and drivel. I, for one, am not mocking. He made a statement which I felt was insufficiently supported, so I provided my own reasoning and asked what his was based on. There may come a point where mocking is the appropriate response, but for now, I’m still in fighting ignorance mode. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/73 "2010-10-06T14:47:42Z")
Cool. You don’t mind if I open for you while you get warmed up? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/74 "2010-10-06T14:59:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@Kolga](#): > > > > But feel free to continue to spout your inane ignorant incorrect bigoted drivel. While we feel free to continue to mock your inanity and ignorance and bigotry and drivel. > > I, for one, am not mocking. He made a statement which I felt was insufficiently supported, so I provided my own reasoning and asked what his was based on. > > There may come a point where mocking is the appropriate response, but for now, I’m still in fighting ignorance mode. Have fun with that. Looks to me like **Captain Midnight** ’s here to spew nasty comments about blacks, gays, Jews and whoever else annoys him. You’d have better luck educating **Vinyl Turnip** ’s Slurpee machine. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/75 "2010-10-06T15:08:07Z")
If a machine spews “Pea Soup” 95% of the time, how long are you going to keep calling it “Slurpee”? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/76 "2010-10-06T15:21:45Z")
The supposed, alledged drug connection was brought up four years after the murder. Not at the trial, not at the sentencing, but four years later. FOUR FUCKING YEARS! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/77 "2010-10-06T15:26:43Z")
By the way you’d have to be very unobservant or stupid not to know the place is a gay bar. If you find a picture on Google maps, you’ll see they have about 12 rainbow flags hanging above the front door. It would be hard to miss those. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/78 "2010-10-06T15:53:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By the way you’d have to be very unobservant or stupid not to know the place is a gay bar. If you find a picture on Google maps, you’ll see they have about 12 rainbow flags hanging above the front door. It would be hard to miss those. Stop being such a bigot against the color-blind, you fuckin’ pigment-lover! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/79 "2010-10-06T15:58:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > By the way you’d have to be very unobservant or stupid not to know the place is a gay bar. If you find a picture on Google maps, you’ll see they have about 12 rainbow flags hanging above the front door. It would be hard to miss those. Some people just like rainbows, you know. _flounce_ ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112/80 "2010-10-06T16:02:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Anytime that a homosexual gets hit by someone, either in an arguement, physical alteration or whatever, they yell “gay bashing”! 95% of the time, it is about drugs, or alcohol was involved, and words get said. Excellent. The resident bigot weighs in again. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > The most famous example is of course Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming. The media protrayed Shepard as a victim of a gay crime, when what happened was that he was jumped by two guys for money to buy drugs. Had nothing to do whatsoever with homosexuality. As a matter of fact, there is evidence that one of the killers had homosexual relations with the victim. To deny that Shepard’s killing had anything to do with homosexuality is simply bizarre. Pathological, even. You’re in crazy-land now. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > NYC is a big, rough city. Actually, NYC, and especially Manhattan, is not that rough at all. It’s among the safest big cities in the United States. Sure, it has higher absolute numbers of assaults than a lot of other cities, but that’s because it’s so huge. On a per-capita basis, its crime rate is actually low. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > People get mugged, beat up and messed with. Just because you are homosexual doesn’t give you special rights. Gays murder heterosexuals too. Can I charge them with a hate crime? The Stonewall guy was mugged. No biggie, this is what the perps should be charged with. But in America, one has the right to say what he wants. Yes, people do have a right to say what they want in America. If these assholes had simply called the guy a faggot and moved on, we could just dismiss them as two more bigoted morons in a big country. But they didn’t. They called him a faggot and assaulted and robbed him. And if it turns out that they assaulted and robbed him specifically for being gay, then there are hate-crime enhancements for that. As a general principle, i’m actually not a big fan of hate-crime laws, but i’ll be saving no sympathy for these two douchebags if they get hit with some extra time for gay-bashing. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > I’ve been called a lot of things. I have absolutely no reason to doubt that. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Besides, can’t homosexuals defend themselves physically? I’m sure they can. Especially the male like lesbians in flannel. Gays are proud to say that they are members of the military, police forces, fire departments, sports teams, etc. Surely, you can fight back instead of bellering and crying in your lavender hankeys while stomping on every other American’s First Amendment rights. Completely irrelevant, you dribbling fucking idiot. The fundamental principle here is that you don’t assault and rob people; the victim’s ability to defend him- or herself is irrelevant. God, but you’re fucking stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-irony-gay-bashing-attack-at-the-stonewall-inn/556112.md?page=5)