# The Ultimate Question for a Creationist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774 "2007-10-24T00:44:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/241 "2007-10-30T12:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=Ale] Hellooooo-oooo! Folks, I _am_ god, honest! Try to prove I am not and see. [/QUOTE] Hey, according to the Psalmist you are. Psalm 81 or 82 depending on what bible you use. Jesus used this quote to justify his calling God His father. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/242 "2007-10-30T13:12:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] You are making the error, common to people who know nothing about evolution and the evidence for it, that fossils constitute the only evidence for evolution. Even if scientists haven’t found a fossil linking whales to land-bound ancestors, the whale’s genes tell the story of their evolutionary history. The fact that the whale gene is encoded for hind legs, and some whales are born with hind legs, is evidence of their descent from land animals. You still have not, contrary to my challenge, given a creationist explanation for why whales would have genes for hind legs and feet. Please give this explanation ASAP. And I notice you didn’t even touch my question about endogenous retroviruses. So I’m still waiting for a creationist explanation for why we share those with other higher primates. Again, please provide your creationist explanation ASAP. [/QUOTE] Now, let’s see, are you talking about genes that cause: Diabetes, Colon Cancer, hemochromatosis, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, Transient Neonatal Diabetes, alcoholism, mental retardation, dumbness, tooth decay, Multiple-Drug Resistant Infections, additions to most anything, learning disabilities, and anything else someone wants to blame on them. Did you say you don’t believe in God. Right! I don’t have the time to research your other question, but I am sure you will be right on. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/243 "2007-10-30T13:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Now, let’s see, are you talking about genes that cause: Diabetes, Colon Cancer, hemochromatosis, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, Transient Neonatal Diabetes, alcoholism, mental retardation, dumbness, tooth decay, Multiple-Drug Resistant Infections, additions to most anything, learning disabilities, and anything else someone wants to blame on them. Did you say you don’t believe in God. Right! [/quote] Actually, these genes are very problematic for the theist to explain. Why would God do such poor job of designing humans? > [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t have the time to research your other question, but I am sure you will be right on. Then, as I have been saying all along, quit badmouthing evolution. You admit you don’t know enough about the evidence, and you say you don’t have time to research it. Conclusion? Shut up about it. Let me say it again: **You are not qualified to assess the scientific merits of the theory of evolution, so shut up about it until you are.** ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/244 "2007-10-30T13:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] I think a good creationist question is, “Prove to me God exists. You can’t use circular reasoning.” I, as of yet have heard no credible answer. [/QUOTE] You won’t get a credible answer, but you’ll certainly get back plenty of waffle. They’ll say that the birds, the trees, the fossil layers, cosmic redshift and any other phenomena, are all “proof” of God’s existence. It’s actually one of the questions I think they’d _want_ you to ask. I’m currently working of a dissection of a “reasons to believe in god” document on Answers in Genesis ([link](http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/answersbook/existence1.asp)), pointing out all the logical flaws, outright errors and obvious counter-arguments. It could take some time. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/245 "2007-10-30T15:17:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Actually, these genes are very problematic for the theist to explain. Why would God do such poor job of designing humans? Then, as I have been saying all along, quit badmouthing evolution. You admit you don’t know enough about the evidence, and you say you don’t have time to research it. Conclusion? Shut up about it. Let me say it again: **You are not qualified to assess the scientific merits of the theory of evolution, so shut up about it until you are.** [/QUOTE] God designed humans perfect in His image, it was the humans that thought they were smarter than God and tried to find fault with everything. The typical con, others are not qualified, intelligent, etc., to understand science so they should just shut up and not question what I say is right. Yes sir. But I think that has already been done a few thousand times by other dictators. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/246 "2007-10-30T15:22:24Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] God designed humans perfect in His image [/quote] Cite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/247 "2007-10-30T17:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Well, I personally would strive for a definition of “deluded” which was not so watered down as to be functionally useless - just as I try to use the word “omnipotence” in some more useful fashion than defining it in terms of creating rocks too heavy for the omnipotent being to lift. And using such a yardstick I wouldn’t find it useful to label a belief in transsubstantiation as deluded - given that the Catholics themselves are quite clear that this doesn’t entail the wafer physically turning into a mouthful of bloody raw flesh. I’m happy to reserve the word “deluded” to apply to something as gross as a belief that God is telling a specific person that some other specific person is wholly untruthful, for no reason at all. I don’t say that something so bizarre could never happen, but I’d be looking for corroboration, and I’d be looking to see if the claimant was talking to trees as well. [/QUOTE] So, anybody’s who’s seriously talked to a wooden cross with the notion that someone or something was listening would qualify, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/248 "2007-10-30T17:09:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Cite? 😃 [/QUOTE] That is one of the things the Bible got right. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/249 "2007-10-30T17:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] We don’t believe in any perfect demigod people either. So I can take it that both you and this smart Jewish lady keep the law of Moses in all particulars? Otherwise I’d have to take it that you thought you knew better than Moses. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Sure you do. Leda and the swan, Mary and God, they all come from the same place. Not Jewish tradition, that’s for sure. Not being raised Orthodox, I’m not a fundamentalist in any way. As for knowing better than Moses, you should read the Bible again. Moses was hardly Mr. Perfect. He got angry, he screwed up while getting water. However, much of Judaism is not reality averse. I read a while ago that the Reform Bible commentary will actually note the absence of evidence for the Davidic Empire. And I never learned creationism in Hebrew School. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/250 "2007-10-30T17:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] That is one of the things the Bible got right. 😃 [/QUOTE] So God has diabetes, colon cancer, hemochromatosis, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, transient neonatal diabetes, alcoholism, mental retardation, dumbness, tooth decay, Multiple-Drug Resistant Infections, additions to most anything, and learning disabilities? That explains a _lot_. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/251 "2007-10-30T17:53:38Z")
[QUOTE=ftg] “Does God lie?” [/QUOTE] [Clearly…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) […So.](http://www.gotquestions.org/jealous-God.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/252 "2007-10-30T18:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] So God has diabetes, colon cancer, hemochromatosis, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, transient neonatal diabetes, alcoholism, mental retardation, dumbness, tooth decay, Multiple-Drug Resistant Infections, additions to most anything, and learning disabilities? That explains a _lot_. [/QUOTE] lawlz. 😛 Jesus had a yeast infection. Which is why catholics eat bread to symbolize his flesh. On Topic: “Why is every religion on Earth but yours wrong?” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/253 "2007-10-30T18:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] [Clearly…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) […So.](http://www.gotquestions.org/jealous-God.html) [/QUOTE] The Bible was written by man, not God, so your evidence is faulty. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/254 "2007-10-30T18:02:45Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] So God has diabetes, colon cancer, hemochromatosis, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, transient neonatal diabetes, alcoholism, mental retardation, dumbness, tooth decay, Multiple-Drug Resistant Infections, additions to most anything, and learning disabilities? That explains a _lot_. [/QUOTE] I have no idea how you got that conclusion from my post? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/255 "2007-10-30T18:15:49Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I have no idea how you got that conclusion from my post? [/QUOTE] If man is created in God’s image, so was the Elephant Man. When you say we were created “perfect in his image”, then clearly, all the crap screwups and problems in our bodies are also “perfect”, and were of course "perfect"ly copied from the image of God himself. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/256 "2007-10-30T18:32:18Z")
I’ll sometimes ask someone if they heard about that study that’s just been published, where the took 5,000 cancer kids, and prayed for half of them, and the half that was prayed for had a 20% increased chance of recovery. When they respond “really? wow, proof that prayer works!” I just let them know that there was no such study, but there have been plenty exactly like it that show that prayer does _not_ work. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful tool. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/257 "2007-10-30T18:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] If man is created in God’s image, so was the Elephant Man. When you say we were created “perfect in his image”, then clearly, all the crap screwups and problems in our bodies are also “perfect”, and were of course "perfect"ly copied from the image of God himself. [/QUOTE] [Christian mode] Adam & Eve _were_ created perfect. It wasn’t until their sinful defiance of God’s law that imperfection entered their bodies. So all that “junk” DNA, including the bad genes that cause diabetes, elephantiasis, etc. were not created by God – it was SIN that caused these imperfections, not God. [/Christian mode] (Which still doesn’t explain why all those dinosaur bones appear to be 100 million years old. Maybe the dinosaurs sinned, too?) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/258 "2007-10-30T18:49:26Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] [Christian mode] Adam & Eve _were_ created perfect. It wasn’t until their sinful defiance of God’s law that imperfection entered their bodies. So all that “junk” DNA, including the bad genes that cause diabetes, elephantiasis, etc. were not created by God – it was SIN that caused these imperfections, not God. [/Christian mode] (Which still doesn’t explain why all those dinosaur bones appear to be 100 million years old. Maybe the dinosaurs sinned, too?) [/QUOTE] Actually adam and eve _were_ dinosaurs. It wasn’t until after they and their descendents sinned enough to _seriously_ annoy god that he turned people from giant majestic powerful creatures to balding little gorialla wannabees, and cursed the original people’s bones to age rapidly as punishment for their sins. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/259 "2007-10-30T18:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Actually adam and eve _were_ dinosaurs. [/QUOTE] No, Adam & Eve were bacteria. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774/260 "2007-10-30T18:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] No, Adam & Eve were bacteria. 😃 [/QUOTE] God is truly great that we have evolved from bacteria in only 6 thousand years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ultimate-question-for-a-creationist/423774.md?page=14)