# The UN cannot become irrelevant... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712 "2003-02-08T15:46:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/21 "2003-02-09T14:03:32Z")
I have an idea. How about if delegates to the UN are selected by free democratic elections in which residents of countries get to vote regardless of their sex, religion, or race. Without this it’s pretty much a farce. How is it legitamit for Saudi Arabia to participate in discussions about the role of women or Iraq to speak on behalf of its people? Note that I said residents, not citizens, this would mean that undocumeneted aliens in the US would get to vote for the US UN representative as well. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/22 "2003-02-09T14:44:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*Must be dreadful for a right-wing nutball pro-Israeli to see the legitimacy of the UN so widely enhanced through this crisis. \*\* On the contrary, I would like to see the UN become a legitimate, effective organization. I’m not happy that the UN is almost useless; I’m simply trying to be realistic. Note that the credit for enhancing the UN’s legitimacy in this crisis goes to the Bush Administration. After all, they could have done as Clinton did in Kosovo, and simply attacked Iraq without even asking the UN. On the contrary, Bush has moved heaven and earth to get the UN to get a resolution, to resume inspections, and, hopefully, to authorize an unfortunate, but necessary, war. It must be galling for a left-winger to acknowledge George Bush’s leadership and accomplishments in trying to again make the UN relevant. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/23 "2003-02-09T15:00:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > I’m not happy that the UN is almost useless; I’m simply trying to be realistic. Blimey ! Have you taken your pills today ? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Note that the credit for enhancing the UN’s legitimacy in this crisis goes to the Bush Administration. After all, they could have done as Clinton did in Kosovo, and simply attacked Iraq without even asking the UN. On the contrary, Bush has moved heaven and earth to get the UN to get a resolution, to resume inspections, and, hopefully, to authorize an unfortunate, but necessary, war. Silly billy ! Kosovo invited a Russian veto and the UN doesn’t invite veto’s. And who needed the UN anyway. It was quite legitimately a Euro / NATO operation. Bush has moved heaven and earth ? I see. Nothing to do with those three meetings with Powell where Powell explained _exactly_ what he’d have to do if Bush didn’t go to the UN, nor Blair expalining he couldn’t support Bush without the UN … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > It must be galling for a left-winger to acknowledge George Bush’s leadership and accomplishments in trying to again make the UN relevant. Classic ! I thought he keeps saying he doesn’t need the UN, implying it’s irrelevant … ? Damn, if I needed another sig, that would be it ! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/24 "2003-02-09T15:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > It must be galling for a left-winger to acknowledge George Bush’s leadership and accomplishments in trying to again make the UN relevant. Balderdash, sir! Tommyrot! GeeDubya’s announced intention to ignore the UN should it fail to acknowledge his “leadership” cannot remotely be interpreted as trying to make the UN relevant. Thats so utterly whack, it isn’t even wrong. If anything, the intent is precisely the opposite. The Bushistas would be pleased to drape UN legitimacy around its actions. That would be nice, it would add a pleasant touch, like tying a pink bow around the neck of a rabid pit bull. It is quite impossible to strengthen the UN without surrendering at least some sovereignty to empower the UN. GeeDubya would rather nail his pecker to a tree than do so. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/25 "2003-02-09T16:30:38Z")
**London\_Calling** : > [@](#): > > Silly billy ! Kosovo invited a Russian veto and the UN doesn’t invite veto’s. And who needed the UN anyway. It was quite legitimately a Euro / NATO operation. This argument cuts more against the peaceniks than it does against the war hawks. Substitute “Iraq” for “Kosovo,” “French” for “Russian,” “US led coalition of UN member states” for “Euro / NATO.” Fact remains: the US has far more legitimacy for going to war with Iraq than Clinton did with Serbia, enough UN resolutions to wallpaper my house. When did NATO become a UN surrogate? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/26 "2003-02-10T00:48:00Z")
I do like “peacenik”, very reminiscent of flared jeans and ill-considered facial hair. Personally, I think Kosovo and Iraq have got as much in common as Hendrix and Clapton but I guess that’s for another thread… Finally, I can’t begin to think how you believe there is more legitimacy in this capitalist ‘hostile acquisition’ than there was in the human rights dominated Kosovo mission. Perhaps from an economic perspective … but I don’t think that impresses the lobby opposed to action without a second Resolution. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712/27 "2003-02-10T02:09:27Z")
_A man wanted a very stubborn and temperamental mule trained. When he took the mule to the trainer, the first thing the trainer did was hit the mule on the head with a two-by-four. When the man asked the trainer why, the trainer replied, “First, you have to get his attention.”_ **London\_Calling, elucidator** – a year ago there wasn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell that the UN Security Council would pass a unanimous resolution giving Iraq a final chance to cooperate with the implicit threat of military action. Bush got the UN to this position in part by threatening _them_ with irrelevance. That is, by threatening to procede without the UN if necessary. That was a heavy-handed approach, but it worked. The Security Council took a step toward relevance by passing Resolution 1441. I think there’s a good chance that they will take another step toward relevance by actually authorizing military action. If that happens, Bush’s threat to proceed independently will have played a crucial role in getting the UN to be taken seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-un-cannot-become-irrelevant/153712.md?page=1)