# The unassailable opinions of Gobear **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417 "2003-08-15T17:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/1 "2003-08-15T17:09:13Z")
I’m not quite sure what to make of this individual. To be fair, I’ve seen him be thoughtful and intelligent – though never completely civil. More often, however, he comes across as exceedingly intolerant, and has an unfortunate predilection toward making sweeping generalizations about entire religions, nations, cultures, etc. Does he give reason? Sure; but he is a philosophical horse-doctor. Every fault, every shortcoming a group of people has ever been associated with indicts that entire group for all eternity. And this, or course, grants license to paint every member of that group with the same brush, including fellow posters. Since well nigh any significant group has faults, Gobear has plenty of targets to fling his feces at. Frankly, he has turned the corner and despite occasional bouts of lucidity, I consider him a full and three-quarters ignoramus. I’m appalled by it, and I’m surprised he doesn’t take more flack than he already does. Just a few examples: > [@](#): > > _[Gobear on Hinduism:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=204499&highlight=Gobear)_ > Given that **Hinduism embraces caste discrimination as virtue** and its history of barbaric religious rituals like thuggee and suttee, not to mention the current abuses of power by fundamentalist Hindu political groups like Shiv Sena and the BJP, I’m not terribly impressed by Bright N’ Shiny’s protests. As usual, there’s a kernel of truth in there. The caste system is a regrettable aspect of Hinduism. Unfortunately for BrightNshiny and many like him, the fact that he and his denomination don’t support discrimination doesn’t absolve him of any sins or grant him the ability to speak out about his beliefs. > [@](#): > > _[3 non-blondes justify racial profiling](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=177731&perpage=50&highlight=Gobear%20religion&pagenumber=2)_: > On the other hand, it’s stupid to pretend that the terrorists do not all look similar to one another. > > Sugar, look at Khalidh Sheik Mohammed. Look at Mohammed Atta. Look at Osama bin Laden. Notice any blondes? Ah yes, since recent terrorists tend to look alike, it’s acceptable to single out everyone who shares that ethnic heritage for scrutiny. > [@](#): > > _[Most Christians are dumb](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171145)_: > A large segment of Christians tend to be uncritical thinkers who blindly swallow whatever bit of gossip or urban legend is fed them by their pastor or fellow congregants. Sure, there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians, but they are a minority in the American Christian population. Who do you think has been keeping Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the Crouches on the air all these years? Atheists? Because there are fundamentalists, gullible people, and of course gullible fundamentalists, we know that that by the law of todus molens that intelligent Christians number less than half of the total group. > [@](#): > > _[Liberals are unpatriotic bin Laden apologists](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162311&perpage=50&highlight=Gobear%20religion&pagenumber=2)_: > But over the past three decades, a sea change has occurred and liberalism has come to stand for reflexive anti-patriotism (all the liberals who blamed 9/11 on American foreign policy and not on the hijackers or bin Laden and who find burning the American flag to be admirable), Luddite economic views (international trade is EEE-vul!), and social and personal irresponsiblity. A couple bleeding hearts have obviously peed in the punch bowl for anyone with liberal leanings. In fact, liberals are now all anti-patriotic bin Laden apologists. > [@](#): > > _A select few, and Gobear, speak for all Iraqis_: > Don’t be naive. They do speak for Iraq— **all Iraqis** hate Israel and Jews and they’re none too fond of the US either. Do you really think there’s anyone in Iraq, or any Arab country for that matter, who has a favorable opinion of Israel? Certainly there are scores of people in any country with prejudices. Iraq is unique in that they unanimously hate Isreal, Jews, and the US. I guess that’s how they managed the unanimous presidential vote some months back. > [@](#): > > _[Gobear on Germans](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=146671&perpage=50&highlight=Gobear%20religion&pagenumber=2)_: > Germans are not Nazis today because they lost the war in 1945 and had their noses rubbed in the Holocaust. But in from 1933 to 1945, the vast majority of non-Communist, non-Jewish Germans were Nazis–read Daniel Goldhagen’s Hitler’s Willing Executioners.\*\* The Germans, as a nation, were collectively responsible for gassing and incinerating millionsof innocent men, women, and children. > And don’t give me “But Uncle Horst didn’t know about the camps”–yes, he did. The Germans knew what was going on, what had happened to their neighbors, what “resettlement to the East” really meant. \*\*Please note that Goldenhagen’s work has been, let’s just say [questioned.](http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id72.htm). I can’t believe no one took exception to the notion that the entire population was knowingly and directly culpable in the holocaust. Unless you believe in a unique German gene, this paints a pretty dark picture of all people. > [@](#): > > _[Baseless accusations of a mother not being capable of unconditional love for her children](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=146333&perpage=50&highlight=Gobear%20religion&pagenumber=5)_: > Witch, I sincerely hope that all of your kids are straight; I don’t think you could love a gay child. Witch’s views were being debated, but nowhere did she make anti-gay statements that would warrant this attack. > [@](#): > > _[On religions it’s ok to mock and why](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=143163&highlight=Gobear+religion)_: > Christians don’t get harrassed–they do the harrassing > > You can mock Judaism and Islam til you turn blue, and I don’t care, but since Jews and Muslims are linked with race and ethnicity, mocking them is not the same thing as mocking the oppressive hegemonic control that Chrisitanity exerts in this country. I’m not sure that claim one is correct, claim two of Christian hegemonic control I also doubt, but the real point to ponder is why it is acceptable to mock a group just because they are in the majority. > [@](#): > > _Gobear, professor of Indian studies_: > Mind you, while I’m not indicting the whole country, I’ve been to India and the place really is a shithole, but one strewn with wonders, kinda like a latrine with diamonds scattered in its fetid depths. Way to mock an entire nation because they are afflicted with widespread poverty. > [@](#): > > - > > [Gobear does not suffer impudence from ‘the help’](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=184374&perpage=50&highlight=Gobear%20service&pagenumber=2)\*: > If a cashier dared say anything othe nature of the comment in the OP, I guarantee I’d ask for the manager and get her in trouble. Ditto for the C-word who gave attitude over the Randy Shilts book. > > Criminy, stick up for yourselves, you doormats! One does not take crap from the help. > > I wager I have as much or more familiarity with the service profession as anyone here. I’m still waiting for proof of that last head-slapper. I suppose it is justification for the earlier comment about ‘the help’. Don’t tell me I’m the only one picturing Leona Helmsley here. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/2 "2003-08-15T17:21:52Z")
I’m not surprised to see this thread. I dig gobear and we share the same viewpoint often. It’s a very polarizing viewpoint, though. After I read the Hindu post I knew the pitting wasn’t far off. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/3 "2003-08-15T17:37:24Z")
Intriguing. To say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/4 "2003-08-15T17:52:23Z")
Oh yes. According to **Gobear** , it’s OK to mock and stereotype any group. Except for gays. Then it’s terribly wrong. Don’t you see the difference??? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/5 "2003-08-15T18:02:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > After I read the Hindu post I knew the pitting wasn’t far off. I’m not sure what you mean by that. Clearly this isn’t just about the [recent] Hindu comments. I’m pretty far removed from being a touchy-feely advocate of hyper political correctness - but gross generalizations designed to impugn individuals without thought to their own independent views is not benign, in my opinion. It’s ignorance in one of its most dangerous forms. I have ‘dug’ Gobear on occasion too, but I’m fairly Gobeared-out at this point. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/6 "2003-08-15T18:08:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Ah yes, since recent terrorists tend to look alike, it’s acceptable to single out everyone who shares that ethnic heritage for scrutiny. Who’s being singled out? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/7 "2003-08-15T18:13:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Who’s being singled out? \*\* Deliberately obtuse posters? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/8 "2003-08-15T18:17:00Z")
There’s most-always some truth to be had in what **gobear** has to say … the problem is that sometimes this truth is carried to an end that does not justify the means. I think that can be said for just about anyone who posts about as hot-button topics as are cited in this thread, though. With notable exceptions, of course. All in all, **gobear** is ahead of a lot of other people on my “People whose opinions I’m tired of because however much fact there is, you can’t avoid the bullshit attached” list. He’s said some regretable things here, to be sure, and I wouldn’t say I agree with even half of his political views. But again, you can do a lot worse than this fellow. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/9 "2003-08-15T18:21:22Z")
Wow, I’m flattered that **Waverly** took the time to read my posts and Pit me. You love me, you really love me!! So she (I don’t know **Waverly** ’s gender, so I hope I’m using the correct pronoun) doesn’t like my opinions? Pity. I have a dark view of human nature, a view borne of many years of experience and education, and it underlies many of my posts. Perhaps you don’t like my POV, but I don’t care. I post to express my opinions, not to curry the favor of the audience. Anyway, I’m not sure why you have your panties in such a wad. You disagree that India is an extremely dirty place, but still filled with wonders? Hey, sister, I’ve been there, and I’d be happy to send you my photos. I’m not sure how stating the facts is mocking the nation. Am I supposed to say that India is not poor and not filthy? As for the labor thing, I worked my way through college and spent several years afterward waiting tables, making beds, and doing hotel scut work in Yellowstone, the Tetons, Grand Canyon, and Death Valley. I worked my ass off and always did my best to make customers happy. Now that I’m on the other side, I expect to get service on the level I gave. If I’m paying for a service, I’d better get it. Re: Iraq. Read a newspaper. Re: Germany. Read a history book, or better yet, visit the Holocaust Museum here in DC. As for **Autz** ’s asinine post, there is a difference between stereotyping (bad) and generalization (not always accurate but often useful). I can just see your revison of history ttxts: “On December 7, 1942, certain individuals not representing the Japanese as a whole in any way attacked Pearl Harbor, an action we do not wish to condemn because there are two sides to every story.” ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/10 "2003-08-15T18:22:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Who’s being singled out? \*\* > [@](#): > > _From the linked thread_: > So I’m looking for angry, political, young, male Muslims probably but not necessarily from the MidEast, since Collounsbury pointed out the collaboration of French converts. I’m not sure how you pick out a male Muslim by sight if he isn’t of middle eastern origin, but the logic isn’t mine. You can interpret this any way you wish and draw your own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/11 "2003-08-15T18:35:13Z")
Whether I agree with him all the time or not **Gobear** is and will continue to be one of my favorite posters. I find him to be well-read, well-educated, well-traveled and humorous. He has always been polite to me and expressed his opinions very passionately. I would rather disagree with him but walk away considering some of the points he makes than read other posts where people talk about subjects they have no knowledge of. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/12 "2003-08-15T18:42:30Z")
I also think **Waverly** is guilty of not reading my posts carefully. For example, she claims that I said “Most Christians are dumb,” but she quotes me as saying," > [@](#): > > A large segment of Christians tend to be uncritical thinkers who blindly swallow whatever bit of gossip or urban legend is fed them by their pastor or fellow congregants. Sure, there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians, but they are a minority in the American Christian population. Who do you think has been keeping Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and the Crouches on the air all these years? Atheists? “A large segment” is not equivalent to “most Christians,” and she ignores that I said “there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians.” > [@](#): > > I’m not sure how you pick out a male Muslim by sight if he isn’t of middle eastern origin, but the logic isn’t mine. You can interpret this any way you wish and draw your own conclusions. I thinkeverybody should be questioned, but I think it’s ludicrous to treat all people as being equally likely to commit terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/13 "2003-08-15T18:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure how you pick out a male Muslim by sight if he isn’t of middle eastern origin, but the logic isn’t mine. You can interpret this any way you wish and draw your own conclusions. I guess the definition of the word “single” has changed since I last checked. How does “keep an eye open for everyone matching certain characteristics” equal “singled out”? I guess I just don’t get it… the means of investigating is to NARROW one’s focus, not broaden it as much as possible. Maybe that’s why security at airports is such a joke. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/14 "2003-08-15T18:50:22Z")
**gobear** , if I might (and feel free, either of you [**Waverly** or **gobear**] to tell me I mightn’t): 1. **Waverly** ’s male. 2. I think the point he is trying to make is that sometimes you’ll take facts 1 through 15 and go to point 25, when in his opinion (and sometimes I share this with him) point 20 is about as far as you can reasonably go. 3. Sometimes your manner of stating something tends to imply that any other viewpoint is ill-based. At least, that’s the opinion I have. While you certainly shouldn’t be currying your responses to what the general SDMB person will want to see, I think it beneficial to at least make sure you’re saying what you think … that your opinion is borne out of what you are saying to the best (or most reasonable, perhaps) of your abilities. IMO. YMMV. Etc. And as I said there are any number of people on this MB who are as guilty of this as you are, and many moreso. A brief foray into GD would yield more than you could poke a stick at. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/15 "2003-08-15T18:59:37Z")
Yes Gobear, you did say- > [@](#): > > “there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians” But then you immediately followed up with- > [@](#): > > “…but they are a minority…” So in the very same paragraph you said the the unthinking Xtians are a “large segment”, that there are many intelligent, thinking Xtians, but that they are a minority. Sounds maybe a bit conflicting. Maybe it’s just adjective abuse? Sam ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/16 "2003-08-15T19:00:24Z")
Gobear, you’ve made a few more incorrect assumptions. I’m neither female nor do I like you. But hey, why fuck up your batting average now? You can describe India any way you like, but I happen to feel it is demeaning to compare so many people’s country of origin as a latrine. A have a couple cite requests, if cites exist as you claim: \*\*Which newspaper and in which issue is there a report of _all_ Iraqis hating Jews, Israel, and the US? Where in the Holocaust Museum is the exhibit stating that _the vast majority_ of Germans were members of the Nazi party who knowingly participated in the Holocaust?\*\* I’m so glad to you included your resume as support for your reference to service professionals as ‘the help’. Does this make you the most knowledgeable [ex-] service professional on the board? I’m sill curious how you came up with that. > [@](#): > > “A large segment” is not equivalent to “most Christians,” and she ignores that I said “there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians.” Jebus, what thrilling masturbatory word play. You state: **“there are many intelligent, thoughtful Christians, but they are a minority”**. **Minority:** the state of having less than half (OED def. #3) **Most:** the majority of (OED def. #2) Since you are smart enough to know this, I can only conclude you are putting us on. So tell us, why say one thing and then claim to have said another with word contortion? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/17 "2003-08-15T19:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\* > 3. Sometimes your manner of stating something tends to imply that any other viewpoint is ill-based. At least, that’s the opinion I have. \*\* I like that about **gobear** and several other posters here. I find it highly annoying when people try to qualify their statements about right and wrong with “that’s just my opinion.” If **gobear** or anyone else holds to a particular viewpoint it seems reasonable to me that they’d believe themselves correct and everyone else incorrect. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/18 "2003-08-15T19:06:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I thinkeverybody should be questioned, but I think it’s ludicrous to treat all people as being equally likely to commit terrorism. \*\* There is an implied assumption here and I think the lack of an explicit statement of this assumption is part of the disconnect which sparked this thread. The implied assumption here is that **given the current geopolitical situation and the distribution of wealth/power/etc therein, certain groups, mostly made up of individuals sharing ethnic traits, are more likely to commit terrorism than other groups, mostly made up of individuals sharing other ethnic traits.** The statement without this assumption being clearly spelled out could also be read as a bigoted remark. An insinuation that it is a trait of the ethnicity as opposed to a offshoot of the geopolitical realities of the current time. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/19 "2003-08-15T19:08:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I guess the definition of the word “single” has changed since I last checked. How does “keep an eye open for everyone matching certain characteristics” equal “singled out”? I guess I just don’t get it… the means of investigating is to NARROW one’s focus, not broaden it as much as possible. > > Maybe that’s why security at airports is such a joke. \*\* I’ll assume this is an innocent question. You are referring to the noun. As a verb, single means to “regard separately”, and though on this rare occasion I don’t think the OED gives the best definition, it implies in this context that people meeting the described criteria are treated differently than those that don’t. Make sense? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417/20 "2003-08-15T19:08:56Z")
Now, see, I’ve got to disagree with you there, MGibson. My opinion is just that, my opinion. It is my take on a situation. Others are entitled to their take and I don’t necessarily think their take is wrong. Ill-informed, asinine and laughable, perhaps, but not wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unassailable-opinions-of-gobear/195417.md?page=2)