Hope this isn’t threadshitting, but I always grin at “long waits” being the boogeyman in the U.S. Last time I had a problem that required a specialist visit, it was a 12 week wait (me in serious discomfort the entire time) before the first appointment, and another 8-10 weeks wait between each subsequent appointment (in serious pain at that point). This, in the middle of a major metropolitan area (Chicago), with the best health insurance one can get (the city’s union-negotiated Blue Cross PPO). :rolleyes:
I mean that health care is funded through various tax levies and then a portion of this is returned to the provinces for health care funding through transfer payments.
From here, the average Canadian spent almost $6,000 on health care in 2011. In fact, that’s the average per person, including the entire population (kids, elderly too). So, my guess that I contribute about $1,000 a month is a pretty decent guess.
Saying you have health coverage for $40 a month is completely misleading people in the US. I’m not being snarky; I’m just pointing out the true cost of coverage.
I know, that’s why I said this in response to Spoons:
I know you’re not being snarky, no worries! I honestly had/have no idea how much of my taxes go towards health care, just like I have no idea what portion goes to infrastructure, transportation, the arts, education, etc. I know I pay it and it gets distributed to all the public programs, but I don’t know how much goes where.
That’s one of the things I learned on the Straight Dope that blew my mind - US Americans can’t quit their jobs because of healthcare! Land of the Free, my lily white ass!
Sorry, I probably confused people by agreeing with you, too - we also pay a certain amount each paycheque for my husband’s Blue Cross extra coverage. Spoons is right - the Alberta Healthcare cost has been gone for a couple of years now (I forgot about that). As for what we pay in taxes for healthcare, one figure that keeps coming to light is that Canadians pay less per capita for healthcare than US Americans do - that’s about all I need to know.
Well, that makes me feel a bit better. Long wait times are just a fact of life in Calgary - we had our healthcare system here reamed out by a premier who balanced the provincial budget by destroying our healthcare system, and it will be a long time before it recovers (if ever).
Now, I know that most stories here have been very positive, and give the impression that a single-payer system has no downsides and is the only way to go. I do consider it desirable.
But I just want to point out that health care costs are increasing everywhere, if unevenly, and that many single-payer systems are facing some tough choices.
Here in Québec, the government is trying to find ways to increase revenue to pay for the health care system, but without appearing to raise income taxes and corporate taxes. The way they’ve found is to add a special “health contribution” (a tax by any other name) that will apply to everybody above a certain revenue threshold. Seems people are more willing to accept a special tax for the (well-liked) health care system than another increase in the (unpopular) general income taxes. The “contribution” is about 100$ per person for the moment I think, but the sky’s the limit of course.
Similarly, the premiums for the government-provided drug insurance (which, you’ll recall, is mandatory for those who don’t have private drug insurance) have been growing by leaps and bounds since its introduction about 10 years ago.
My mother had the same experience in Canada (Saskatchewan). Her doctor added, however, that if she “accidentally” had a severe enough gall bladder attack, then they could get her scheduled for surgery right away, so “be sure you don’t accidentally eat something that might give you an attack, wink wink, nudge nudge!” Sounded a bit ridiculous to me.
I had the same experience in the U.S. I had a gall bladder attack that resulted in an ER visit and had to wait six weeks until my surgery could be scheduled.
There are problems, I don’t think anyone would deny that.
Health care costs are rising world round, it’s true.
In Canada, for instance our population is far flung over a vast area, getting those places ‘equal’ access to resources is very challenging. In the end some provinces just pony up the cost of flying the family to a southern city for treatment. It’s not ideal.
Sometimes efficiencies in the system get overwhelmed by numbers. The baby boomer cohort is a good example, health care services of every design will be stretched to the limits by the time the last baby boomers come through the system. But governments have strategies in place to accommodate some of the impact because they could all see it coming.
The other thing happening, as the cohort ages is, they all need hip and knee replacements and lots of them. Knees and Hips seem to be the most frequent replacement surgeries at the centre of any ‘long waits’ controversy. No one wants to be rude and tell gramps that he’s low on the list, but in reality he is still walking, over the counter meds are controlling his pain, and he’s getting through life. He can wait. In times of huge numbers access to resources will be triaged. And just like emerg just cause you’re bleeding/feel wretched doesn’t mean you’re first.
Let’s just say some seniors want what they want, and they don’t like waiting. It’s a fear tactic chestnut, wait times, gets lots of press in election years etc. This often obscures people who really are falling through the cracks where changes are needed.
By keeping everyone covered, governments don’t have to pick up any actual health care costs, for any citizens. Just help out with insurance premiums for those they choose to cover, like students, seniors, the poor.
Yeah, I agree that there are problems, but I’m wracking my brains to come up with some other than wait times, and I’m really not finding any. Things are going to get more expensive, no doubt about that, but when you have the entire nation paying into the same system, the costs are much more defrayed for every individual citizen.
I’ve said it before: our system is imperfect and it fails people every day. That’s the truth. It isn’t the penny-pinching death machine that some US folks fear, it’s a system that gives pretty good care to most people most of the time at a fraction of the cost of the US system. It runs alongside a private health system that people can opt to use instead if they can afford to.
Albertan, just retired (basically, decided I have enough savings so I couldn’t be bothered looking for another job after I got laid off), 58, paraplegic.
As I think I’ve said before in other threads, our UHC is universal in the sense that everyone has coverage, it is not universal in terms of exactly what is covered, although it covers a very great deal. Alberta Health Care coverage used to be billed separately (virtually any decent employer would cover it as a job benefit) even though if you didn’t have it you didn’t have anything. It is now paid for out of taxes. Pretty much any non-cosmetic surgery is covered as well as hospital stays and drugs within hospital. Somebody mentioned sex-change operations a while back; they were dropped from Alberta Health Care coverage a while back but have very recently been reinstated. All doctors visits are covered as well…
Things that are NOT covered include semi-private or private hospital accomodations, drugs outside of hospital, ambulance rides, dentistry (pretty sure they cover dental work required as a result of an accident, but nothing in the way of “ordinary” dentistry), and a few other things. Hence many employers set up group supplementary insurance coverage to cover all that stuff, or you can get it on your own.
I have a very basic supplementary insurance plan for C$63.50 per month, which I got mostly because it pays 70% for prescription drugs (there are a few other benefits as well, but that is what I care the most about). I still have to pay the whole shot now for dentistry which is a little painful (pun intended) but I couldn’t find supplementary insurance for individuals that included dentistry and was reasonably priced.
Last November I had a pretty major jaw surgery to correct my overbite. They literally cut my top jaw out of my head, shaved the bone down 4mm and then reinsterted it 2mm ahead of where it was, moved my lower jaw ahead 7mm and gave me a 10mm chin job.
Total cost to me: $2000, for the surgeon’s office fees. The same procedure would’ve cost $50,000 in the US.
Pretty good for a surgery whose medical necessity if debatable. I know I did it mostly for cosmetic reasons.
Australia.
As already said, we pay a percentage from our wage towards Medicare and then can take out private health insurance if we choose. For a family of four (two adults + two small kids) at the almost top level cover costs around $40 - $50 per week.
Here is the cover I have.
A few experiences:
Bad cold. Get an appointment at my Doc (usually that day otherwise I can ring around and find another or go to a walk-in) cost $75, $35 of which I get back through Medicare.
Two years ago I had to get my appendix out. Ambulance ride to hospital: $700. Our health insurance covers that so we forwarded the bill on to them to be taken care of. The operation, a week in hospital (due to some complications) and the follow-up consult, all on the public system. Out of pocket cost: $0. The same for my wife a year later when her appendix went pop. 
Between my wife & I and our first kid there was one year when we had five ambulance visits to our house, three of which ended up in transports to hospital. Right there is about $3500 in ambulance costs which were covered by our private insurance, which costs us about $2600 per year.
Two kids delivered through the public system: fuel and parking costs.
3 ½ year old with vomiting, diarrhoea, and a high temp at 7pm on a Saturday night. To the walk-in at the hospital, seen in about 10 min. $0
Colonoscopy: public system, $0 but a four month wait.
Gastroscopy: private system $1200, could pick the time and Doc, done within two weeks of needing it.
Need glasses – go to a bulk-billing optometrist. No out of pocket cost. Then find a place that has a no-gap arrangement with our health insurance provider: two sets of reading glasses, no out of pocket cost.
I’ve found the level of care in both the private & public system to be excellent.
tl;dr
The system is good, not perfect, but I’d much rather have it than not and certainly far better than the US system.
I don’t look at the Medicare tax payment as *“Me paying for everyone else.” *It’s me throwing in a few bucks with everyone else to provide the basics. If I need more than the basics I can choose to go that way.
Some pay more, some pay less but I figure in the end we break even.
That doesn’t solve the issue of overhead costs related to a large number of very different insurance plans (for instance in a recent thread, the doctor’s secretary, insurance company’s staff and insured arguing forever about whether or not a first evaluation visit is covered, instead of the doctor’s putting a code number into a computer terminal and it’s the end of it). And of course the overhead resulting for the profits of the insurance companies.
I would note that, if I’m not mistaken, the Dutch system only covers people below a given income, the others having to buy a private insurance. that would be somewhere in between UHC and what you’re proposing.
Under our country’s UHC system, there is only one insurance plan, so that’s not an issue. The hospitals run not for profit, like police stations and fire stations and schools. Insurance companies are still 'for profi’t but health coverage is through the province and it’s ‘not for profit’. But you can always buy extended coverage for private rooms, travel insurance/shots etc, elective surgeries, that’s all from a for profit provider.
Yes, but doctors can also have their own private business where they see and treat patients. The province sets a fee for each type of visit/procedure and the doctors bill the province for that amount. Out of that amount the doctor pays for infrastructure, staff, supplies, etc. The amount left is for the doctor and so in that regard they are running a business for profit.
Not my personal experience, but a good friend of mine married a Czech woman, and she maintained her Czech citizenship mostly for the health care. They recently had a child after IVF. Three attempts, and all those flights from the US for both of them were still dramatically cheaper than a single IVF attempt in the US.
I’m a little amazed that a country only a couple of years older than their relationship can offer this while the US cannot.
Well, technically, in France, I don’t pay for everyone else. I pay into an insurance scheme run by an independant agency set up by employers and unions and made mandatory by law. So, what is removed from my paycheck is in fact my individual insurance premium. And this system evolved from a situation where large companies or industrial branches had negotiated self-funded insurance schemes for their workers (not similar to the current American system, since American companies rely on insurance companies instead of creating their own insurance)
And until the mid-90s it wasn’t even only “technically” because people with no tie with a workplace (employed, self-employed, retired) weren’t covered. A typical case was people unemployed for more than 2 years. Eventually, the system was made truly universal by having the state (i.e. my taxes) paying into the system for the then uninsured. But at its heart, it’s in fact a job-related insurance scheme.
I have a friend just returned from the Czech republic where she was in an accident and had to have her gall bladder removed.
None of her companions were allowed to visit her, though they spoke the language and she didn’t, as they weren’t her family. She was refused access to a phone for days and days, unable to contact her family. She was given nothing for pain after the surgery. Nothing, not even an aspirin. And you should see the scar on her abdomen!:eek: Almost 2 feet long, ragged and jagged, bumpy and disgusting. Looks like she was ripped open, not sliced and sewn up by a one armed blind seamstress!
I could only say things like, “well at least you’re alive - that’s what counts!”, but I was thinking OMG, how is such a thing even possible in the 21st century. This was a city, not a little backwater hospital. Shiver.
I’m thinking they still have some distance to go yet.
Every so often someone proposes a system where you can remain in the UHC system, but an additional system is added in where people who can afford it can pay more to get quicker service. This is always shouted down, in spite of the fact that it would probably be a better system than what we have now, because Canadians are terrified of starting down the slippery slope to a system like what the citizens of the US have to endure.