# The Undoing -HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [November 2, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585 "2020-11-02T20:31:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/1 "2020-11-02T20:31:04Z")
Anyone watching? Started out OK but by the end of the second episode I think I may have had enough.Nicole Kidman still looks good, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/2 "2020-11-02T23:52:46Z")
I’ve been watching it, since HBO put it in the prestige Sunday 9pm slot. It reminds me a bit of Big Little Lies in featuring murder in a wealthy community, with even the same element of one family that’s not wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/3 "2020-11-03T01:46:28Z")
I’m watching with interest. I haven’t read the book that’s the basis for the show, but from the title–“You Should Have Known”–I’m guessing we’re in for either an indictment of the Nichole Kidman character (who should have known that her husband was up to no good) or an indictment of ourselves-as-viewers (who should have known that twists such as having the viewpoint character actually be the killer, are common). At this point, two episodes in, it could go either way. The show was clearly made with trademark HBO “prestige show” high production values, so it should be an entertaining ride. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/4 "2020-11-04T16:25:46Z")
The whole bit with reporters jammed outside the school like the Beatles were going to show up or something really put me off. What plausible reason could they have for being there? And everybody except Kidman’s character knew that her husband was a suspect? I may give it one more episode. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/5 "2020-11-05T15:10:58Z")
I like it. Nicole’s hair is great . Probably using extensions. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/6 "2020-11-10T02:39:46Z")
My teenage son and I are watching it and mostly liking it. Creepy and thought-provoking, with a _Succession_esque vibe of wealthy and secretive NYC life. I keep having the sense that important things have happened that we’re not shown, even between scenes, and that Grace is far from a reliable POV character. At this point my theory is (and was, even before the crosswalk security footage was revealed) that she killed the smokin’ hawt young mom in a jealous rage and then had some kind of psychotic break and can’t even remember doing it. High production values and a good cast. Kidman is doing very well, and both Donald Sutherland and Hugh Grant are stretching themselves in their roles more than I’ve seen either do in a long time. Grant’s scenes in the Rikers Island visitors’ room, imploring his wife and son for help even as he’s forced to admit what a scumbag he’s been, are absolutely riveting. I also really like the Latinx actor playing the NYPD homicide detective. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/7 "2020-11-10T13:45:08Z")
seems like they may have taken some of the plot from Presumed Innocent book/movie by Scott Turow. He was a popular lawyer/author before John Grisham was popular. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/8 "2020-11-11T00:00:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I keep having the sense that important things have happened that we’re not shown, even between scenes, and that Grace is far from a reliable POV character. At this point my theory is (and was, even before the crosswalk security footage was revealed) that she killed the smokin’ hawt young mom in a jealous rage and then had some kind of psychotic break and can’t even remember doing it. … Or that she does remember doing it. But I agree that the show is appearing to set us up for the revelation that Grace is the killer–for one thing, it’s odd to have the show opening depict (presumably) Grace as a child. The implication is of some kind of mental illness or trauma that could explain her being a killer. (And you don’t cast Donald Sutherland for a routine role; the implication _there_ is that he either knows something about her childhood problems, or caused them.) Then again the twist could be more Agatha Christie than Scott Turow–the detective did it! Anyway, it’s an interesting ride so far. I’ll stick with it-we’re halfway through. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/9 "2020-11-16T04:29:27Z")
Still digging it. The actress who plays the defense lawyer is terrific, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen Sutherland and Grant as good as they are in this. I was almost shouting, “No, don’t do it!” when the Grant character went to visit the grieving dad. An epically bad move. At the end, in his interview (hey, it’s really Connie Chung!) I thought he was gonna throw Grace under the bus as the actual murderer, but judging by the previews for next week, he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/10 "2020-11-16T20:12:52Z")
Grandpa said he would kill Grant himself if he harmed his daughter or grandson so I guess that makes some people think Grandpa may have killed her or hired someone to do it. Most likely he would have hired someone. Remember what he said to the head of the school too. Of course there is the issue of the videos and for now the cops are not saying they saw anyone other than Mr. and Mrs. doctors on video. If someone else is on video it will come out on trial. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/11 "2020-11-16T21:04:25Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > for now the cops are not saying they saw anyone other than Mr. and Mrs. doctors on video. I think there was just a reference to this in E4, where one of the detectives said (paraphrasing): “_the only **relevant** people on the camera were you and your husband_”. I too am an unreliable witness, but I’m pretty sure that’s the gist of it. Whether it is meaningful, or just a practical point, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/12 "2020-11-16T21:14:08Z")
cops can lie all they want to suspects or anyone when they investigate a crime. Courts have even upheld that . For example when there are \>1 people involved they can tell #1 that #2 confessed and said #1 is guilty too even if #2 never said anything to the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/13 "2020-11-17T01:03:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > At the end, in his interview (hey, it’s really Connie Chung!) I thought he was gonna throw Grace under the bus as the actual murderer, but judging by the previews for next week, he doesn’t. I keep noticing that one person has all the money (Donald Sutherland’s character). Grace may have some money, but nowhere near as much as Daddy has. So it would be very convenient for Grace (and possibly for her husband, too) if Daddy were to be convicted of a brutal murder; such a conviction would surely hasten his death. Aside from that: it’s become conventional in mystery fiction that if the murder victim has had his or her face brutally smashed in, the murder victim is not who we think it is. But is it plausible that the NYC police would not have done some sort of tests (fingerprints or DNA) to confirm that it was indeed Elena who died? Who knows with a story like this; maybe it’s just a red herring. The show definitely plays with red herrings, or the possibility of red herrings; for example, we’ve repeatedly seen Grace visualizing the bashing of Elena’s head in. That, again, may be intentionally misleading (a la “Grace has a vivid imagination”) instead of an indication that it was Grace who did the bashing-in. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/14 "2020-11-17T03:05:45Z")
It’s not as good as Big Little Lies but I am enjoying it. So who is the other woman that he admitted he cheated with? My guess is Grace’s lawyer friend, Dance Mom Sylvia. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/15 "2020-11-17T14:51:11Z")
Did they ever say where grandad got his money? I don’t think he’s a Dr. Maybe a banker or finance type. Of course he could always change his will and give all the money to charity and not his daughter and son in law. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/16 "2020-11-17T16:42:47Z")
No, I think the source of the family fortune is as yet unmentioned. Dance Mom is a good guess for the other fling, but it could just as likely be someone we haven’t met yet. Seething, mourning widower holding a helpless little baby who isn’t his and whom he’s said he has been unable to love… not a good scenario. And BTW, _not_ a good idea to watch your estranged, murder-accused husband do a live TV interview _with_ your sensitive son _and_ your dad _and_ your best friend _and_ her daughter. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/17 "2020-11-17T20:02:57Z")
it occurred to me that when big name actors play very rich people it’s like what their off screen life is like for them. Not much of a stretch. Kidman’s husband Keith Urban is also wealthy from his music career. TV interview reminded me of the one Affleck did in Gone Girl. Difference was it was his wife who was missing and presumed dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/18 "2020-11-18T00:40:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And BTW, _not_ a good idea to watch your estranged, murder-accused husband do a live TV interview _with_ your sensitive son _and_ your dad _and_ your best friend _and_ her daughter. WTF? If, hypothetically, the character of interest is NOT actually surprised by what is said in the TV interview, but for purposes of misleading your audience you want her to _look_ surprised, then to play fair, you have to have her watching with other people. (Because in such circumstances she would make a point of pretending to be surprised.) But then again, that’s just a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/19 "2020-11-18T01:21:21Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I like it. Nicole’s hair is great . I thought that’s what this show is all about. I’ve been watching, but I can find no other real reason to stay engaged. I’m just envious. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585/20 "2020-11-18T02:31:21Z")
The hair is a wig, unfortunately. Kidman has been dyeing her hair blonde and straightening it for years and apparently it’s really fried. It takes about three to five years or so to grow a mane the length she’s sporting from scratch–I know this because almost six years ago I stopped dyeing my fried hair and let it grow out–took three years to get all the colored parts grown out while keeping my hair below shoulder length the entire time. The next two years were me hacking off five inches at a go because it kept getting in my way. It’s really amazing how fast hair can grow when you stop fucking it over every six weeks or so. If I hadn’t cut it at all it would probably be long enough to sit on by now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-hbo/924585.md?page=2)