# The Undoing of Joss Whedon - anyone else read this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940 "2022-01-17T18:16:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/21 "2022-01-19T00:27:27Z")
It’s like Adam Savage and Michael Stipe had a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/22 "2022-01-19T00:33:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s like Adam Savage and Michael Stipe had a kid And then clearly failed to raise him. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/23 "2022-01-19T13:25:30Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Somebody ought to tell Joss not to drink so much water during an interview so he doesn’t have to duck off to the potty every time an uncomfortable question rolls out. He strikes me as a weak little fuck who used every bit of power he got handed to be spiteful and shitty to people he didn’t like and now that he doesn’t have that power any more he’s a sad sack nopologetic weasel boy whining about how life is so unfair. If you wanna run with the big dogs, Joss, you gotta be ready and able to get bit as well as bite and own up to your shit when it all goes down instead of sobbing and bedwetting. Feh. The fanboy part of me says this is harsh and unfair and part of me that says yes. So, well said. I also agree that creator and head writer is most qualifications today. After reading that article, I guess I see some nuance. I don’t know if it’s the fanboy in me or not? I have seen enough interviews with people to know that, and even those in the article, Joss was quirky but not sure he ever went malicious. At least half the people quoted didn’t think he did. Some liked the raw feedback as it made them better writers or actors. Others would have preferred feedback in a different way. It doesn’t excuse that he’s a jerk but I don’t think he’s worse than others in Hollywood. Thanks for the discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/24 "2022-01-19T22:18:34Z")
You can impugn the reliability of the various women in the article, but when the man himself explains his behavior at the time as “I was afraid I would regret it forever if I didn’t take advantage of all these young beautiful women” then I don’t know what else there is to say. This is not the thinking of a well-adjusted “feminist” person, this kind of immature manchild should never be left alone in any kind of managerial position. He says he’s afraid of opening his mouth because his words will be used against him, he’s afraid for good reason. He opens his mouth and immediately skewers himself repeatedly. No outside assistance needed. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/25 "2022-01-19T22:24:10Z")
Yeah, for a writer who specializes in snappy dialogue he’s become quite the king of the self-own. You’d think he’d write himself better material because he’s coming across as absolutely weak and guilty compared to the simple and hard statements coming from his opponents. There’s a way a lot of people act who simply can’t bring themselves to just flat out lie with conviction and Joss is giving a textbook example of it. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/26 "2022-01-19T22:32:24Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > I was afraid I would regret it forever if I didn’t take advantage of all these young beautiful women” Yeah, that’s not taken out of context at all. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/27 "2022-01-20T00:55:37Z")
> On our second day of interviews, I asked Whedon about his affairs on the set of _Buffy_ . He looked worse than he had the day before. His eyes were faintly bloodshot. He hadn’t slept well. “I feel fucking terrible about them,” he said. When I pressed him on why, he noted “it messes up the power dynamic,” but he didn’t expand on that thought. Instead, he quickly added that he had felt he “had” to sleep with them, that he was “powerless” to resist. I laughed. “I’m not actually joking,” he said. He had been surrounded by beautiful young women — the sort of women who had ignored him when he was younger — and he feared if he didn’t have sex with them, he would “always regret it.” He was the boss. He understood there was a “power dynamic.” He had sex with them anyway, because he feared he would always regret it. Please enlighten me to the context I am missing here. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/28 "2022-01-20T01:03:22Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > He was the boss. He understood there was a “power dynamic.” He had sex with them anyway, because he feared he would always regret it. Please enlighten me to the context I am missing here. Around the same time those affairs happened while filming Buffy, we had people defending the president of the United States for his affair with an intern. At the time, this kind of behavior seemed acceptable to a lot of people many of whom would rightly denounce it today. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/29 "2022-01-20T01:27:18Z")
Holy fuck ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/30 "2022-01-20T01:34:24Z")
Those statements are vastly different that the bullshit “quote” you used originally. You don’t get to falsely attribute statements to people around here. Saying you’d regret not taking the opportunity to sleep with the kind of women that were out of reach to you as a youth is not saying you’d regret not “taking advantage” of them. Your creative paraphrasing is not accurate or appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/31 "2022-01-20T02:04:42Z")
It’s odd to me that you would insult me in this way, given that the article makes it clear Mr. Whedon himself would not find my characterization so inappropriate. Earlier you indicated that you haven’t read it yet, I recommend you find the time to do so before you continue further down this road. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/32 "2022-01-20T02:08:23Z")
Perhaps if you think I insulted you, that goes a long ways to explain your misreading of the quoted statements. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/33 "2022-01-20T02:18:41Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Those statements are vastly different that the bullshit “quote” you used originally. Not really. It give a slightly different emphasis but being the boss, he most definitely did take advantage of those women. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/34 "2022-01-20T02:42:12Z")
That’s not the point. He did not say or imply that he’d regret “not taking advantage” of those women. He’d regret not having sex with them. Those statements have vastly different connotations. The fact that he “took advantage” of them is nonetheless problematic, but he’s not saying that the key feature for him was the exploitative behavior…it’s the sex with the pop idols. I’m not defending the guy, but it’s false to claim that he flat out confessed to sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/35 "2022-01-20T03:20:55Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > He did not say or imply that he’d regret “not taking advantage” of those women. He’d regret not having sex with them. And because he was their boss, that means taking advantage of them. He might not have meant it that way, but it’s exactly what he did. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/36 "2022-01-20T04:45:09Z")
I have no problem with the accuracy of the paraphrasing given the expanded source, but I too would have preferred it was clearly noted as a paraphrase, not presented as an actual quote, @Mr.E Or if you’d only put the quote marks around the “always regret it.” ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/37 "2022-01-20T11:09:10Z")
I’ve never been a fanboy of anyone, so I don’t understand the backing Whedon still gets from some people. All the accusations against him, often backed up by others, should be enough to give pause. The fact that HBO dropped him like a hot potato from his own show is incredible. The stuff he readily admits to is bad enough. The capper is his responses in the article. Cyborg was the worst actor he’d ever seen so he had to get most of his scenes written out? Really? I could name a dozen actors from Buffy/Angel/Dollhouse/Firefly that should never been hired. Gal Gadot doesn’t understand English? Bullshit. He has flowery speech that people don’t understand? I’ve never seen it. He sounds like every other middle aged man that may finally face some consequences for his actions. Sob about people being mean to him and claiming he’s the nicest showrunner ever. And WTF is with the peeing thing when he doesn’t want to answer a question? Whatever “help” he got to get his PTSD excuse from was obviously not serious or competent. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/38 "2022-01-20T11:58:38Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > This just reads like another “knock down the hero” hatchet job. Use every thing that can be interpreted such to paint a picture of a sexist pig. Is it true? None of us can know. …of course we can know. We can just take him at his word. Joss paints the picture quite clearly. He is a sexist pig. And he isn’t a hero. It’s all in the interview. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I mean, when your sources are a “a television writer who moonlights as a psychic medium”, someone who “dropped her patriarchal last name”, and a woman who wrote a book about being a female pick up artist, I think their credibility is lacking. Or, this: "They were rolling around on the floor, making out. “They would bang into my chair,” she said. “How can you concentrate? It was gross.” " Frankly, I don’t believe that one bit. It doesn’t make sense anyone would do that. I mean, does this make any sense? > [@The Article](#): > > **On our second day** of interviews, I asked Whedon about his affairs on the set of _Buffy_ . He looked worse than he had the day before. His eyes were faintly bloodshot. He hadn’t slept well. “I feel fucking terrible about them,” he said. When I pressed him on why, he noted “it messes up the power dynamic,” but he didn’t expand on that thought. **Instead, he quickly added that he had felt he “had” to sleep with them, that he was “powerless” to resist.** I laughed. That doesn’t sound real, right? Nobody would admit to being powerless to resist sleeping with someone where there is a clear power imbalance, right? > [@](#): > > “I’m not actually joking,” he said. He had been surrounded by beautiful young women — the sort of women who had ignored him when he was younger — and he feared if he didn’t have sex with them, he would “always regret it.” But here he is admitting it. I have no problem believing that this person would do the things the other person claims. It’s hardly the most unbelievable story I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/39 "2022-01-20T13:39:06Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And he isn’t a hero. It’s all in the interview. Except, even some of his victims aren’t actually saying he did anything wrong. it’s right there in the article. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940/40 "2022-01-20T13:43:52Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Except, even some of his victims aren’t actually saying he did anything wrong. it’s right there in the article. …if they were victims, then he did something wrong. It’s inherent in the name. They wouldn’t be victims otherwise. But you can ignore the three people you talk about and listen to absolutely everybody else if you like. There are more than enough of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-undoing-of-joss-whedon-anyone-else-read-this/957940.md?page=3)