# The Unforgiven **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877 "2009-09-13T01:45:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/41 "2009-09-15T19:21:10Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Which is why Clint growls (something along the lines of) “Kid, we all have it coming”. > > My favourite Clintism of all time! Next to the short yet powerful life lesson “Deserves got nuttin to do wit it.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/42 "2009-09-15T19:23:20Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I think only the whore who got cut up is the only decent person. Common W.W. Beauchamp is ok, just a bookworm city slicker in way over his head. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/43 "2009-09-15T19:26:57Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > “I was building a house.” “I was gonna make espresso.” ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/44 "2009-09-15T19:41:35Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > “I was gonna make espresso.” 😃 Will Munny would shoot a blind man without a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/45 "2009-09-15T19:58:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Up until that point he was a tired, over-the-hill gunslinger who couldn’t shoot, couldn’t ride and who shied away from confrontation. From that first sip onward, he was the Man With No Name, the Clint we’ve come to know and fear. Watch the scene again - even his speech patterns changed. > > (I was responding to two posts above me. Check the timestamp.) Well, he got the old Will Munny’s skills back after the beatdown from Little Bill. After he recovered, he pretty much led the team, and he was the one who finally killed the first cowboy - Ned just hit his leg, but Will shot him in the belly. But you’re right, he got Will Munny’s soul back when he heard Ned was dead. And Will Munny is much worse than the Man with No Name. Sergio Leone’s Clint wouldn’t have killed women & children. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/46 "2009-09-15T23:00:06Z")
“I’ll bet you think I’m kickin’ you, Bob.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/47 "2009-09-15T23:31:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > “I’ll bet you think I’m kickin’ you, Bob.” One of Hackman’s best characters, in a career full of them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/48 "2009-09-16T02:59:36Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > And like you, I do believe that Little Bill was more than just a bully. Sure, he takes advantages wherever he can get 'em, but you can see that he’s always calculating, as when he shows that his “quick” draw isn’t blinding fast, but that he knows keeping a cool head and shooting straight is better than being fast. And you gotta have some stones to keep a cool head under fire. I believe him to be a bully and an asshole. Speaking to the reporter is merely the behavior of a braggart, the bully showing off to a new follower. Stones he may have when he’s kicking a guy with the flu, and he may keep them when threatened yet surrounded by his minions, but he’s an evil bastard. He reminds me of the cops here in Jericho, Arkansas who made the news recently, terrorizing the populance to get fines for speeding tickets. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/49 "2009-09-16T03:16:09Z")
I can tell you whose gonna be last. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/50 "2009-09-16T03:38:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe him to be a bully and an asshole. Speaking to the reporter is merely the behavior of a braggart, Bully, asshole, braggart - also sadist. Also fearless ( facing down Munny in the bar with a shotgun pointed at his chest ) and very dangerous ( even if you don’t accept this from his minion-backed beat downs, the extreme caution with which a contract killer like English Bob treats him speaks to this ). He’s interesting in that he’s a complete monster who represents law, order and ( roughly ) civilization. Other than his initial asshole move of not demanding some appropriate compensation ( like a lawful trial for starters ) from the knife-wielding cowboy vis-a-vis the maimed prostitute, which partially precipitates what follows, he’s technically mostly in the right. Vigilantism can’t be tolerated, disarming visitors in such a tense situation is reasonable, murderers need to be hunted down. He just goes about this lawful business in the most cheerfully sadistic and brutal manner possible. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/51 "2009-09-16T04:23:40Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Common W.W. Beauchamp is ok, just a bookworm city slicker in way over his head. Maybe by the end. I’m not sure if he has learned his lesson. He is there to cash in on, the myth of the wild west, and of course he gets the real deal. What sort of book does he publish down the line? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/52 "2009-09-16T05:10:16Z")
yeah ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/53 "2009-09-16T14:59:41Z")
I quote Robyn Hitchcock: In Unforgiven He was totally mean But when he got his I really felt for Gene But don’t talk to me about Gene Hackman ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/54 "2009-09-16T20:50:33Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Maybe by the end. I’m not sure if he has learned his lesson. He is there to cash in on, the myth of the wild west, and of course he gets the real deal. What sort of book does he publish down the line? Well, figure he writes the flowery language at the beginning of the film and the flowery language at the end… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/55 "2009-09-17T05:17:21Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Maybe by the end. I’m not sure if he has learned his lesson. He is there to cash in on, the myth of the wild west, and of course he gets the real deal. What sort of book does he publish down the line? Pissing down your pant leg would lead one to write all the more realistic. In the beginning Beauchamp writes like he does because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, when it’s all over he’s seen what a gun fight looks like and what it ends like. I think like The Schofield Kid he’s learned what it means to kill a man and he’s never going to want to see it or romanticize it again. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/56 "2009-09-17T11:22:24Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Pissing down your pant leg would lead one to write all the more realistic. In the beginning Beauchamp writes like he does because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, when it’s all over he’s seen what a gun fight looks like and what it ends like. I think like The Schofield Kid he’s learned what it means to kill a man and he’s never going to want to see it or romanticize it again. I disagree. As soon as the real gunfight ends, Beauchamp rushes over to Munny and starts asking what order he killed 'em in – by _ **explaining** _ what an experienced gunfighter would do when surrounded by superior numbers, and brushing past Munny’s _“is that so…”_ to start cheerfully deducing who Munny would’ve killed first, and who could have been next, all according to what Little Bill had told him _ **before** _ the gunfight. Maybe it’ll sink in later, but I see no indication that it’s sunk in when last we see him. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877/57 "2009-09-18T18:00:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I disagree. As soon as the real gunfight ends, Beauchamp rushes over to Munny and starts asking what order he killed 'em in – by _ **explaining** _ what an experienced gunfighter would do when surrounded by superior numbers, and brushing past Munny’s _“is that so…”_ to start cheerfully deducing who Munny would’ve killed first, and who could have been next, all according to what Little Bill had told him _ **before** _ the gunfight. Yup. Beauchamps next book will be about Will Munny and will describe the shootout with terms like, “Steely gaze,” “Blazing hot lead,” and “lighting fast…” Little Bill was a bully and braggart. His talk was all about how and he and English Bob were the real deal and how he couldn’t stand posers. His law enforcement goals were admirable but his methods were excessive. Once Bob and Will were disarmed, Bill should have let them be. His biggest fault was his disregard for the whores for being,well, whores. His idea of justice wasn’t even on behalf of the victim. He just “fined” the boys so that their pimp could get compensated. One aspect of the film that I really liked was the realistic way that issues were simply left unresolved. Poor Delilah ended up thinking that Will was lying to her about not wanting a free one. The only people whose stories are resolved are the dead ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-unforgiven/509877.md?page=2)