# The United States Declares Economic War on Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 1, 2025, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734 "2025-02-01T21:16:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/241 "2025-02-03T02:11:13Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Anybody that loves and believes in the United States of America is in favor of Tariffs. Paying High Prices is Patriotic > [@The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues/1010068/1224): > > The right suddenly has a new mantra. “Paying High Prices is Patriotic”. First 15 sec of this video (Meidas Touch) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0XUO44lL-Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0XUO44lL-Y) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/242 "2025-02-03T02:13:10Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Not sure why people are complaining. The response to Tariffs has been FANTASTIC according to Donny: We’ll see what the S&P 500 has to say about that tomorrow. This isn’t to say I know for sure what the stock market will do. But I think your post shows us the real Trump. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/243 "2025-02-03T02:28:35Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This isn’t to say I know for sure what the stock market will do. But I think your post shows us the real Trump. I think he is flailing because NO ONE is saying the tariffs are “fantastic” except for his sycophants. 2020: Trump negotiates the “Best deal ever” trade deal with Canada and Mexico. 2025: “This trade deal is terrible! They are taking advantage of us!” > **[United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement](https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/united-states-mexico-canada-agreement)** > > The United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) entered into force on July 1, 2020. The USMCA, which substituted the North America Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is a mutually beneficial win for North American workers, farmers, ranchers, and... ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/244 "2025-02-03T02:41:37Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Just a thought, but perhaps Trump is wanting Canadas support in his land grab of Greenland. And this tariff scare is just a way to get Canada to play along with his game. Its a fucked up and stupid plan. Thats what make me think this might actually be his plan. I’d guess it’s even simpler; I’d guess he’s just saying this to see what Canada will offer him — which, as you said, _could_ be support on the Greenland thing, but maybe it’ll be something else, or two something elses; he doesn’t need to know; he doesn’t need to have a plan besides ‘see what they offer in response.’ At that, everything he’s said about Greenland could _likewise_ be him putting stuff out there just to see what offer he’ll get in response. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/245 "2025-02-03T03:17:27Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Not really. Adding 5% markup to a 25% tariff will likely result in lower sales for non-necessity items. What Northern Piper said. If the Trump administration imposes a tariff on imported goods, then domestic producers of those goods can also raise their prices without worrying about being undersold. And because they’re not paying the tariff, the money from those raised prices will be all profit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/246 "2025-02-03T03:20:18Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Except there’s a good chance some or all of their material inputs are being hit by said tariffs. Sure but businesses can pass on the increased costs by raising their prices. The people who ultimately end up paying are the customers because they’re just buying goods; they are the final link in the chain so they can’t pass on the costs to the next guy. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/247 "2025-02-03T03:34:13Z")
Finally have gotten the chance to catch up a bit here (after this bonkers day) after so stupidly cross-posting this in other threads waaaaay after the fact that this thread was started, _long_ before. AND being somewhat content-free posting, so, for here, instead: > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Unfortunately, the stereotype is now ‘All Americans are stupid bigots.’ Nah, just a bit under 77,300,000 of you. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Trump voters voted for his platform. I’d wager alot of Trump voters just simply voted for “YEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAW!” > [@velomont](#): > > It would be impossible to keep following whatever whimsical goalposts (Turnip) would have. Very much this. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if the stock market takes a hit, the bastard tries to back out of the tariffs with some “whatevs” handwaving shrug, followed by some shiny object catching his attention. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If the US imposes similar tariffs on the EU, I could see some coordination on responses. Putting a bit of stock into this. We may need all the help we can get. (and vise-versa?) > [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m beginning to think Trump is looking at Canada the way Putin was looking at Ukraine a few years ago. Not doubting this for a nanosecond. Those scumbag financiers to get those truckers doing blockades, are, I’m sure, afoot. Bannon must be orgasming right now. Despite this whole awfulness riling up his Canadian, I’ve appreciated the empathy shown by you American dopers, here in this thread - taking the edge off things a bit. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/248 "2025-02-03T03:34:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And because they’re not paying the tariff, the money from those raised prices will be all profit. They are paying the tariff on what they import as inputs to their product. The elimination of tariffs between North American nations was a big success that integrated the three economies. I wonder if anyone knows how hard it will be to undo that. We’ll find out soon. Trump didn’t do this to help big business. Big business is against it. Trump did it because he actually believes in mercantilism (whether or not he knows the word). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/249 "2025-02-03T03:43:45Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > Unfortunately, the stereotype is now ‘All Americans are stupid bigots.’ > > Nah, just a bit under 77,300,000 of you. Those 77,300,000 are defining us for the rest of the world. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/250 "2025-02-03T03:46:47Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Trump did it because he actually believes in mercantilism (whether or not he knows the word). He is very likely being manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/251 "2025-02-03T04:29:50Z")
There are signs the stock markets will be down tomorrow due to the tariffs: > **[Dow futures drop more than 450 points after Trump hits U.S. trading partners...](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/02/stock-market-today-live-updates.html)** > > Stock futures tumbled Sunday night to kick off a new trading month as investors weighed new U.S. tariffs on goods from key trade partners. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/252 "2025-02-03T05:04:04Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Strong agree, except maybe on China paying bribes (not saying you are wrong, just that I have not seen the evidence). Evidence is highly limited and conjectural. But Noah Smith points out that Trump’s crypto offering is tailor made for tricky-to-prosecute bribery. Trump controls the bulk of the stock of crypto. A bad actor can pump up its price with a relatively small investment, in the millions. Trump launders the funds by selling his crypto on the market to 3rd party middlemen. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > If the tariffs fail, it won’t be because Trump is controlled by our oligarchs. Oligarchs bow to the dictator, not vice-versa. If tariffs fail, it will be in the court of public opinion, and because the tariff-related job losses and inflation weren’t timed simultaneously with a tax cut. The stock market could make a difference I think. Trump seems to care about that. He could reverse himself and call the resulting agreement the best deal ever. As for tax cuts, his zillionaire tax cuts weren’t especially popular in the last go-around. Also, stimulus won’t reverse a supply shock: there’s an inherent tradeoff between lower output and higher inflation. On top of that, if car manufacturers are as integrated as we think they are, there could be shutdowns of entire plants. According to a Forbes article, automotive spending is 3% of the economy, which is huge. The twist for @Little_Nemo, is that while some companies will enjoy windfalls (eg US potash miners), others will get hit hard (those buying lots of raw materials and intermediate goods from Canada and Mexico). The real advantage for Trump is that he’ll be able to arbitrarily award import exemptions for oligarchs that play nice with him. Like he did last time. More room for graft. Noah Smith walks through some of the economics: > **[Trump starts to break things](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/trump-starts-to-break-things)** > > Tariffs on Canada and Mexico are bad news. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/253 "2025-02-03T11:53:52Z")
Some initial reactions today: > **[Empty shelves at B.C. liquor stores as American booze pulled in response to...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/vancouver/article/empty-shelves-at-bc-liquor-stores-as-american-booze-pulled-in-response-to-tariffs/)** > > Shelves that held bottles of Kentucky bourbon, Jack Daniels whiskey and Bacardi rum are sitting empty at government-run liquor stores in B.C. Sunday – bottles of booze replaced with signs saying, ‘Buy Canadian Instead.’ > **[Fans at Raptors game continue trend of booing U.S. national anthem at pro...](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/fans-at-raptors-game-continue-trend-of-booing-us-national-anthem-at-pro-sporting-events-in-canada/)** > > Fans at a Toronto Raptors game continued an emerging trend Sunday of booing the American national anthem at pro sporting events in Canada. Interesting image of the three Raptor players exchanging glances. I assume they’re Americans, since most of the Raptors are Americans. Another article mentions that the anthem singer was a young woman. After she finished, the booing stopped and the crowd gave her a cheer, which was a nice touch to reassure her it wasn’t her singing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/254 "2025-02-03T12:16:53Z")
Nope, not a stereotype, there is solid evidence for that. Just look at the guy you chose to represent you on the international stage. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/255 "2025-02-03T12:29:02Z")
A stereotype doesn’t have to be completely baseless, the election of this… creature reinforces the stereotype yes, but it’s a stereotype nonetheless, as in, not all americans are complete idiots, just a majority of their voting public, something I can relate to, being in a similar situation. On the other hand, Americans complaining about the stereotype only have their own countrymen to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/256 "2025-02-03T12:43:10Z")
More serious impact: steel slowdown in Hamilton. Trump and the US are causing Canadian workers to lose salary and maybe jobs. We will remember the damage the US is causing to Canada. > **[Steel contracts cancelled, orders slow as Hamilton companies react to tariffs...](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7448494)** > > Looming tariffs are "already being felt" by the steel industry, says one expert. "Contracts are getting cancelled, bids are getting cancelled, and it has already impacted the price of steel."  ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/257 "2025-02-03T13:09:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > We will remember the damage the US is causing to Canada. I really hope Canadians understand it is the fuckwad president the US currently has and not the US people that is the problem. Personally, as an American, I love Canada. I love Canadians. And I think the US president is a moron. I say that in no small part wanting to leave the mess America has become and retire in Canada (not to sponge off your health care but to ditch the mess the US is becoming). Although, I really do like Canada and the people there. ETA: I get half the people in the US voted for the idiot. But that still leaves the other half who didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/258 "2025-02-03T13:37:32Z")
There is some useful analysis by the left wing economist Sam Gindin here that outlines the issues and fissures we face. Gindin was the economist for the Canadian Autoworkers when it broke from its American “parent” in the 1980s and has long warned about being too integrated into the American empire. > **[Trump’s Threats Expose Canada’s Utter Dependency On The U.S.](https://www.readthemaple.com/trumps-threats-expose-canadas-utter-dependency-on-the-u-s/)** > > The immediate task for Canada should be to delink from the United States and the American Empire. He does not offer any easy solutions, though. Part of the problem is many Canadian businesses and politicians are only too happy to be in the American orbit. They have no interest in real Canadian independence, only in easy access to the US market. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/259 "2025-02-03T13:44:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I really hope Canadians understand it is the fuckwad president the US currently has and not the US people that is the problem. It seems like that’s what the international community took away from Trump’s first term. Now although half the country still hates his brand of politics, it is completely normalized in our political system and countries should look at every deal they make with us as though someone like Trump is going to come in and wreck it. The rest of the world is going to have to figure out how to rely on each other and not us in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slight_Off_Hand)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/260 "2025-02-03T14:22:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I really hope Canadians understand it is the fuckwad president the US currently has and not the US people that is the problem. And I hope you understand that it is not the American people that we are dealing with but with the American government. A government that has shown now that it is, at best, an unreliable partner that can not be counted on. Hopefully this will be remembered by all Canadians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734.md?page=14)