# The United States Declares Economic War on Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 1, 2025, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734 "2025-02-01T21:16:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/321 "2025-02-04T23:10:47Z")
I’m inclined to largely agree with you, though, again, I fear for other important government programs if we get too hung up on military spending. I’m not really familiar with much of the submarine saga, but I do seem to recall Canada buying used subs from the UK. Which then suffered various failures, and it all seemed like an embarrassment – we’re not exactly a poverty-stricken third-world country! We can certainly do better than that! The Avro Arrow, as I recall, which we designed and built to the prototype stage, could at that time have been the most advanced interceptor/fighter jet in the world. Made by us, in Canada. But we (well, Diefenbaker) somehow decided that we didn’t need this sort of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/322 "2025-02-04T23:26:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Even if Canada spent ten times what we currently do on the military Think this through and you can call the US bluff on this. Because anything approximating parity military spending by Canada isn’t going to be acceptable to the US. The build-up of such forces, resources and weaponry, whether conventional or nuke aren’t going to be based on Baffin or Prince of Wales Island. They are going to be based somewhat closer to the 48th Parallel. Only reasonable to have them sited close to the threat. And the last time a country had first strike capability within 90 miles of the US mainland, America collectively lost its shit. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/323 "2025-02-04T23:36:09Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > And the last time a country had first strike capability within 90 miles of the US mainland, America collectively lost its shit. The USA specifically freaked out over nuclear weapons. I imagine they would again if Canada tried building them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/324 "2025-02-04T23:43:15Z")
I don’t know about y’all, but this just looked like a good ol’ fashioned shakedown, geopolitical-style. The President of Mexico figured this out PDQ while Canada was still trying to find the proper geopolitical theory to handle this emergency. I have zero, none, no, nada, zilch doubt that Trump’s net worth expanded by quite a bit (billions, easily) with the payoffs he received from various parties in the two countries. “Nice economy you got goin’ there! Be a shame if something happened to it!” [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54307788514_08377d9065_n.jpg "Paulie") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/54307788514/) ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/325 "2025-02-04T23:54:32Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I will laugh so hard if this whole situation results in Polievre losing the upcoming election due to being seen as more likely to roll over for Trump. I’m putting more of a chance on a CPC minority than I would have 6 weeks ago. Given PP has no friends across the aisle on Parliament Hill it would be nice to see him squirm every Question Period. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/326 "2025-02-05T00:11:52Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > Yesterday, Ontario Premier Doug Ford, who was a fan of TFG until, like, last week, said he was [ripping up the province’s $100M contract with Elon Musk’s Starlink/SpaceX](https://www.blogto.com/tech/2025/02/ontario-starlink-contract/). As soon as this 30-day pause was announced, he [backtracked](https://www.blogto.com/city/2025/02/doug-ford-retaliations-us-companies-tariffs-paused/). So my provincial tax dollars will still be heading to Musk’s pocket. Wunderbar. Like myself, I supose some folks spoke that without Starlink, they would have no Internet or TV. Yes it sucks. But many don’t have any choice. I have no choice at all. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/327 "2025-02-05T00:41:31Z")
Hughesnet? ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/328 "2025-02-05T01:01:35Z")
There may be an issue of the tariffs actually having to pass congress. If so, counter tariffs that hurt the economy of enough congressional districts may have an effect. It may have to go to the supreme court. But if the tariffs are enforced by presidential order only and then later struck down as unconstitutional, those who have suffered economic loss could sue the US. So for now, they may not be legal. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/329 "2025-02-05T01:18:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > this just looked like a good ol’ fashioned shakedown, geopolitical-style. The President of Mexico figured this out PDQ As I mentioned in the other thread about Mexico tariffs, the Mexican politicians know very well how to negotiate with actual criminals and thugs. Trump is an ambitious amateur in their geopolitical arena. He hasn’t started kidnapping or threatening family members . . . yet. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/330 "2025-02-05T01:24:48Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > There may be an issue of the tariffs actually having to pass congress. If so, counter tariffs that hurt the economy of enough congressional districts may have an effect. It may have to go to the supreme court. But if the tariffs are enforced by presidential order only and then later struck down as unconstitutional, those who have suffered economic loss could sue the US. So for now, they may not be legal. Cite? Even among the most rabid anti-tariff commentators I’ve seen, no one has questioned their legality. The treaty allows for them in cases of emergency and Trump’s thugs came up with a ludicrously transparent fig-leaf, but it’s enough of a fig-leaf to pass muster - particularly with this SCOTUS. And, as icing on the that particular cupcake, SCOTUS has already declared that Dear Orange Idiot is immune for official actions. And who could sue? US citizens would lack standing since they aren’t “subject” to the tariff and the US is not in the habit of letting non-US folks sue it (sovereign immunity hath its privileges). Any foreign court order would be completely ignored and/or diplomaticed\* away. \* Yes, it’s a made-up word, but it suited my purposes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/331 "2025-02-05T02:41:38Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And who could sue? US citizens would lack standing since they aren’t “subject” to the tariff and the US is not in the habit of letting non-US folks sue it (sovereign immunity hath its privileges). It’s an import tariff. Regardless of what Trump claims, it’s paid by the importer who is presumably a US resident person or corporation. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/332 "2025-02-05T02:45:15Z")
Yeah, Trump effectively has unilateral power to enact tariffs as long as he uses emergency powers or national security exceptions to congressionally approved treaties. Something a lot of us didn’t learn in history or civics is that for nearly the last century, the president has been given massive amounts of power on the assumption that they wouldn’t be completely crazy with it. It seems much dumber that it’s now happening for the second time and we didn’t do much of anything to reform this after Trump’s first term. > **[Trump tariffs: which countries are affected and what does this mean?](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/01/trump-tariffs-explainer-mexico-canada-china)** > > Imports from Mexico and Canada will be taxed at 25% and China 10% – but US consumers are likely to pay the price > [@](#): > > ## Which federal laws give Trump the power to enact tariffs? > > US federal law gives the president broad powers to enact tariffs without congressional approval. > > Trump has the power to declare a national economic emergency to enact his tariffs. This would invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), which gives the president the power to manage imports during a national emergency. > > Trump can also apply tariffs under section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act, which gives the president power to impose tariffs on certain industries. This is what Trump used in 2018, when he hit Canada, Mexico and the European Union with [tariffs](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/articles/need-know-implementing-steel-aluminum-tariffs-canada-mexico-european-union/) on aluminum and steel. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/333 "2025-02-05T09:15:02Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Something a lot of us didn’t learn in history or civics is that for nearly the last century, the president has been given massive amounts of power on the assumption that they wouldn’t be completely crazy with it. It seems much dumber that it’s now happening for the second time and we didn’t do much of anything to reform this after Trump’s first term. The fact that Congress has been so dysfunctional for so long has been a major driver for this issue. _Somebody_ needed to run the government, and between the intransigent Republicans and disorganized, directionless Democrats Congress just refused to get its act together. So more and more responsibility landed on the President who had to do their job _for_ them, which made the office more and more a single point of failure. And here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/334 "2025-02-05T09:24:15Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > > [@JohnT](#): > > > > this just looked like a good ol’ fashioned shakedown, geopolitical-style. The President of Mexico figured this out PDQ > > As I mentioned in the other thread about Mexico tariffs, the Mexican politicians know very well how to negotiate with actual criminals and thugs. A friend of mine who’s a mid-level administrator at an American college says that while her U.S. and European colleagues and staff have been confused and disoriented by the Trump team’s shenanigans, struggling to grasp what they’re doing and why, the faculty and students from places like India and Iran have immediately recognized the behaviors and understood what’s going on. It makes sense that Canada is likewise on the back foot while Mexico is better equipped to handle the pivot. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/335 "2025-02-05T12:31:28Z")
I was on HughesNet. And I kept it up and basically idling (I cut my subscription to the lowest possible). HughesNet is my back up, but a very poor one. I might be able to work off of that dish, but the latency would soon put me in a rubber room. The bandwidth is also terrible as is the data caps. You can sort of watch TV with it, but we ended up giving up on that. Hate to say it, but Starlink has been a life changer. Same for my neighbor who also works from home. Knowing that I depend on it, makes my teeth itch. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/336 "2025-02-05T12:37:02Z")
Is it beyond reason to suggest that a suitable retaliation might be an international consortium to set up a competitor to Starlink? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/337 "2025-02-05T13:34:21Z")
That already exists. [OneWeb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutelsat_OneWeb) has been launching satellites for a few years now, mostly on SpaceX rockets. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/338 "2025-02-05T13:46:26Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Hate to say it, but Starlink has been a life changer. Same for my neighbor who also works from home. Apologies if I sounded too strident in my earlier complaint. And as someone who’s dealt with cruddy interenet service in the past, I get it, and I wouldn’t want folks living in the rural parts of Ontario to lose connectivity over this. Saddened, though, at how extensively we’ve hooked our economic wagons to one guy, and now we don’t have much in the way of options no matter what fascism he pulls. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/339 "2025-02-05T13:59:22Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Seems Canada might make do with cycling reservists through border patrol. A bicycle patrol! An excellent idea, especially if Canada sources the bikes from China to strengthen trade relations! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734/340 "2025-02-05T14:06:44Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > Apologies if I sounded too strident in my earlier complaint. No worries. Most don’t understand the differences of living in the ‘sticks’. Our one utility is electricity. > [@veryfrank](#): > > Saddened, though, at how extensively we’ve hooked our economic wagons to one guy, and now we don’t have much in the way of options no matter what fascism he pulls. Yes. My wife and I would love to continue living here (32 years now). But it’s just going to get harder, and harder as we age. We’ll buy a nice house somewhere on the front range where there is dependable EMS service, and a LOT less snow. Instead of the ‘great outdoors’, I’m going to call it the ‘great indoors’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-united-states-declares-economic-war-on-canada/1013734.md?page=18)