# The US and Hamid Karzai **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 5, 2014, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387 "2014-12-05T07:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/1 "2014-12-05T07:26:06Z")
When I first heard about him, he seemed to be buddy buddy with the US. Then after becoming president of Afghanistan relations soured and kept souring until the end of his presidency. So what happened? Why the love loss? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/2 "2014-12-14T21:45:14Z")
OK, seeing how I’m positive there are people with facts and/or opinions, I’m curious why this thread sank like a stone. Did I place this in the wrong forum? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/3 "2014-12-14T22:19:49Z")
I got the impression Hamid Karzai felt that he needed to be seen in opposition to the US. Make it clear to his own people that he’s his own man. Hamid Karzai lived abroad most of his life and is really an outsider to many in Afghanistan. I’ve read that he spent years in Washington lobbying for some kind of intervention in Afghanistan. This was the 1990’s when the US lost all interest after Russia pulled out. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/4 "2014-12-14T22:33:55Z")
Atlantic Monthly has an excellent article on Karzai’s rise to power. > **[After Karzai](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/07/after-karzai/372294/)** > > Afghanistan’s outgoing president helped heal a shattered country. He also winked at corruption and ruled like a tribal chief. His successor will inherit a nation that’s in better shape than you might think—and a government with little power to keep... > [@](#): > > Before he became president, Karzai, a polished former diplomat turned guerrilla leader, was largely an unknown figure. The scion of a prominent Pashtun family in Kandahar, he had served briefly as the deputy minister of foreign affairs after anti-Soviet forces took over the government in 1992. He made his name among Washington elites through years of anti-Taliban lobbying at Western embassies in Pakistan, after the group allegedly assassinated his father in 1999. > [@](#): > > That gory moment aside, Karzai, in his white tennis shoes, bore little resemblance to the strongmen leading Afghanistan’s guerrilla forces. (After members of the U.S. Special Forces were dispatched to help Karzai in the south, one team member asked another, who’d already met him, “Is he a badass?” The reply: “Well … not exactly.”) Karzai carries himself with the air of an intellectual, especially when he speaks in English, and he is empathetic by nature. His way of thinking about politics grew from his observations of his father, the head of a Pashtun clan and a member of parliament in the 1960s under Zahir Shah, and from his formal study of political science, history, and Western philosophy at Simla University, in India, where he obtained his undergraduate and master’s degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/5 "2014-12-15T02:45:53Z")
Thanks. That’s interesting. I know some of his antagonism towards the west was to score cheap political points with anti American and anti Western elements in his country, he did have some legitimate gripes, but the fact that he kept ratcheting up the anti US sentiment makes me wonder if there’s more to the story. I never considered that he was constantly trying to prove to fellow Afghanis that he was one of them and not an American puppet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/6 "2014-12-15T03:55:07Z")
I was under the impression that he was bad-mouthing the US and being a jerk so that he could look like he was independent of the US Government and not a puppet of the US Government while at the same time being a complete lackey of US corporate interests. I’m a bit surprised he made it to the end of his term alive. I hope he gets out of that hell hole and lives a safe and happy life. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/7 "2014-12-15T07:52:09Z")
Heh, I was going to mention that maybe the US was constantly on his case about corruption, but when I Googled - Karzai corruption - just to be sure, the top 3 or so hits were about him getting payments from the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-us-and-hamid-karzai/706387/8 "2014-12-15T08:55:05Z")
Since this isn’t General Questions I don’t have to bring a cite. Which is good, I have no idea whether what I read on a military affairs blog ([www.strategypage.com](http://www.strategypage.com)) is true. But what I read was that Karzai started out reasonably honest but he and his family, Pashtuns down south in opium country, started making a lot of money shipping and protecting drugs. Besides the time-honored graft and stealing foreign aid lines. This gave bad guys a lever on the Karzai clan to force Karzai to push back against American anti-Taliban efforts. Since the Taliban get most of their money from opium trade, defending one is defending the other. I have no idea how true this story is, but it meshes with the timeline.